Try on these facts then.

!. SWA pilots are due a raise in 2012.


2. Their contract is scheduled to be opened again in 2012. Oh, and slow/alpa, think that they might negotiate a seperate pay scale for the 800??

The PWA at Delta is seriously lacking.

PG;

I missed you, glad to have you back.

I am glad to hear you are "disgusted" by this number. However, can we agree that W-2s based on the number of days worked and not necessarily payrates are what really matters? IOW workrules and payrates combine to make the total package. (SWA's TFP converted to hourly combined with their 6.5 hour daily rigs (not duty period) makes for some efficient flying. Carl's analysis is not far off, just oversimplified.

Eck (whose avatar I cant even look at) mentioned the total package. I for one would like to have the company pay the 415C limit in my 401k in lieu of payrate increases, for me, that equates to a 28% payraise and doesn't scare investors...too much.

Scope is out of hand, we are already at the (loss of leverage) tipping point, I think several areas in section 1 need to be reeled in, not just frozen as they are...This is a DALPA relevancy issue.

Several SWA pilots I have talked to while jumpseating have said that the SW/AT SLI is being fasttracked and could be completed this fall. Aside from what they have said, I have no way of knowing if this is true or not. However, it makes sense to me that once the SLI is complete, there is no real reason -except money - why the operations wouldn't be integrated - including payrates. So, if true, AT pilots could be making more that DAL super premium widebody pilots before 2013.

Again, PG, good to have you back. Can I offer you a crispy cream?:D

I'm touched. Are we married? ;)

Completely agree.

I disagree. Doing this would result in a retirement income greater than working income for the average 30 year working pilot. That's tilting the money too far that way. I have no problem with 415c maximum contributions, but not if it comes at the expense of payrates. We need a happy medium...

The next contract will prioritize this based on member input. We each have our own opinion. I'm closer to you and Carl than you think.

An integrated contract doesn't mean a single payrate. There is often a period of time to bring the lower paid pilots up to the higher scale, and I have no doubt that will likely be the case here. I certainly hope not. Nothing could help you and I more than if Carl's claims are true. I certainly hope they are. We will have considerably more leverage if our closest competitor in our own backyard is actually making SWA rates. I certainly hope that is the case. I'm just not convinced it will be.

It depends on where you "bought" it; and how much it costs! :eek:

Here is some challenging math for you:

SWA hourly rate is $186. Their pilots avg 17 days off and 105 credit hours at that rate.
186*105= $19,530 * 12 = $234,360/yr

For a Delta 777A to make that amount they must average 90 hours per month.

How many 777A's are crediting 90 hours per month? And, for any pilot getting 90 hours how many days off do they avg?

:(

True, but we do not want to fly as much block as they do. If we could find a way to credit to the levels they have, then I am all for it. Many of there 20hr, 24 hr credit three days are going away.

Most of my buddies that are making 180K in the right seat at SWA are flying about 950 block hrs a year and crediting about 1400+. Compareably I flew 700 hrs last year and credited about 870. The trick is in the credit.

Mine is at about about 1.2 and theirs is about 1.47., or I had to fly .8 hrs to credit one our of credit and they had to fly .67 hrs to credit one hr of credit. That complied with pay is the difference.

SWA just negotiated the pay rate for the 800. If they did not ask for a different pay rate during that negotiation its unlikely they will on the 2012 contract. SWAPA does not actually like the result of being at the top of the pay scales. They would like nothing better then for other airlines to regain their historical advantage. Being at the top has led to stagnation and no growth for the first time in their history. They have essentially had their current pay rates since 2002 and have asked for only token raises since then. Don't look for any major push on SWAPA's part for any large raises or changes in the contract in 2012. The critical negotiations for Delta pilots are USAir, American and United. It does not appear likely that any of those airlines will reach a agreement prior to our amendable date.

I don't know a single rep working at Dalpa who believes we should be paid less then SWA in the next contract. When you make the comparison however the number that will count and be the number used by the NMB is total block hour costs not hourly pay rates. Pilots tend to have a focus on pay rates when there are so many other important area's in the contract that we need to make priorities.

Just flew with a MSP based Capt who said his LEC reps stated we would go for a 15% pay raise over a 3 year contract. That was it. That is really what they believe they can get? Only 15%? If they have an opener like that, the DPA is a shue in. Everyone needs to fill out a wish list or call their reps and tell them that it should be SWA +1 for our 737s, nothing less. Just talking about that with that Captain gave me high blood pressure.

I hope you're right. I get the distinct feeling that SWA type compensation (not just payrates) is considered the upper limit of what we could possibly hope to achieve. To me, and many others, it is a good starting point. However, I'm concerned we won't even shoot that high.

I think we all get that. It's about how much comes in the door at the end of the day. You can chop my payrate in half if we count our credit differently, such as report to rotation checkout. Doesn't matter to most of us - just looking for whatever nets the most at the end of the day.

You're underestimating the pilot group thinking that we're not smart enough to see beyond the tables in Section 3.

I've talked to ATL and DTW reps. They all have higher expectations than that. MSP was always the company ass-kissers at NWA. I would not worry too much about it.