Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1019182)

I agree, the LUV airline plays NO part in what I expect out of the next PWA.


See ftb's payrate graphs above..... and that's just one aspect of what amounts to many, many things...

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1019162)

What in the world is going on? What happened to us? :confused:

Originally Posted by NERD (Post 1019066)

Relative seniority will bite us in the ass:(

Originally Posted by LandGreen2 (Post 1019058)

Like JETBLUE!!! Senior CA's with 2000 hire dates....

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1019075)

You could still do relative seniority, it's what many of us think should happen with SWA and AAI. Relative seniority after AAI's start date. In this case, JB didn't start till 1999.

It'd be a mess if you're post 1999 hire at DAL and NWA :eek:

Let's go with not merging again.

Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1019115)

Speaking of, isn't HA hiring 25% of its seniority list in the next 12 months? If so, relative seniority would put a HA hire today at around 9,000 if a merger is announced next year.. Yikes.

Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1019190)

thats some thing I mentioned to our scope guy RD a year ago and he said not to worry....


Cheers
George

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1018916)

I should have posted the average pilot is credited 1100 for pay purposes. Much like SW pilots at Delta make extra pay in a variety of ways.

A pilot flies 80 hours credit a month basic flying lets say without really pushing to pick up extra. Flies the same in a vacation month as a majority seem to do. Now he is around 1060 for the year. Picks up 10 to 12 hours more for training. Gets a couple trips with 20 hours extra in reroute pay and he is past 1100 credit hours without a single GS. Add in two GS's a quarter paying say 30 pay only hours each and you now have a pilot well beyond 1300 credit hours for the year. Ask Carl what some of his peers on the 747 have flown so far this year. As of their 15 July check coming up some will be over a 1000 already for this tax year. Other fly a lot less. Some pilots fly a lot less but the 2010 average was actually over 1100 total pay hours. If your going to use what SW averages per year then you need to use what Delta pilots average per year.
If you going into negotiations with the company and you try and throw bull**** numbers out there your going to get your a.. handed to you. The same thing applies for dealing with arbitrators.
The company will know to the minute what the average Delta pilot is crediting. They will know to the dime our pilot costs are compared to SW on a per block hour basis. There wont be any dispute on all the numbers. Its all available to both sides.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1018919)

We were discussing total pay between SWA and Delta. The average Delta pilot in 2010 did over 1100 hours pay. Its nice that you did 250. When manning was good I would bid reserve and fly 200 to 300 hours a year also. That is not however what I got paid.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1019232)

That would be an extremely small portion of my peers on the 747. Nobody I know has gotten even one green slip since the merger. I've never gotten one and I'm a mid seniority guy. A small handfull of those guys does not raise the average 744A guys' pay very much. At SWA, they average 230K per year, working an average of 12 days per month, with an iron clad scope. That's not BS. I don't know why you are trying to insinuate otherwise.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1019232)

That would be an extremely small portion of my peers on the 747. Nobody I know has gotten even one green slip since the merger. I've never gotten one and I'm a mid seniority guy. A small handfull of those guys does not raise the average 744A guys' pay very much. At SWA, they average 230K per year, working an average of 12 days per month, with an iron clad scope. That's not BS. I don't know why you are trying to insinuate otherwise.

Carl

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone (Post 1019234)

I dont even know why we are salivating over SWA pay. We need to aim much higher. This airline environment we are in is "ripe" for making tons of $$$$. If our managers' aren't capable of taking advantage of this arena, they should be fired. Pilot pay/labor has never effected revenue creation or company financials, contrary to what MNGMT 101 sells.

We are worth much more than we think, especially with this "lurking" pilot shortage :rolleyes:

TEN

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1019236)

Post that you want a 75% raise. Contract 2000 pay plus interest.

It helps bring out the capitulation crowd.

Same crowd hates if we mention SWA, except those who honestly believe SWA pay is too low. Which is a good thing.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1018955)

Are you saying Carl is worth twice as much as me? :D

Just trying to latch on to a simple idea. Sure it's not as big of a % increase for Carl though, it takes his rates from $217 to $276 but mine jumps from $94 to $153.

I say Carl, if he were here, I guess I'm buying.

The thing now about voting yes when you should've voted no and never fessing up to it, with our scope language issues we could easily be voting for furloughs when you vote yes.