The success of the "C2K reaction" is debatable. While many like to parrot the pay scales, few enjoy discussing the fact it was not even six months until job protection provisions began failing and the contract was modified beyond any recognition by concessionary negotiations. Over the life of the agreement several thousand pilots lost jobs (both from the top and the bottom) and thanks to the increase in outsourced flying increasing from 10% to 50%, those jobs are not coming back.

IMHO C2K was ill conceived. It is unfair to the Titanic to make the comparison, but both were the greatest until they sailed into adverse conditions and sank.

A contract, particularly the job protection provisions needs to be critically evaluated before being rolled out. Job protection provisions (scope) will be tested under economic stress.

For political reasons, we refuse to evaluate failure, we resist change and we continue with policies which have a track record of having failed repeatedly. ALPA has a great Air Safety department. Wouldn't it be great if the same methodology we use to evaluate safety recommendations were applied to our contract language?

Political justifications don't matter. Results matter.

Contract 2K remained inforce until April of 2004. It ran for almost the entire length it was scheduled and the pay raises kicked in each year. There were no modifications of the contract beyond a few very small clarifications of issues. The amendable date I believe was Aug of 2004.
The company did not even approach DALPA for any change to the contract until late fall of 03. There were no negotiations at all until that point. I have no idea where your getting your information.

Do you consider the furlough of our pilots while other divisions of Delta were hiring to be a failure of our job protection provisions?

Here is what you stated:

few enjoy discussing the fact it was not even six months until job protection provisions began failing and the contract was modified beyond any recognition by concessionary negotiations.

There were no negotiations. Again I don't know where you got that information.
As far as job protections the contract allowed for furloughs in the event of a force majure event. DALPA filed a grievance when the pilots were furloughed. We lost that grievance and no one really expected we would win. If 911 was not a force majure event then I don't know what would qualify. A year later additional furloughs occurred. Dalpa again filed a grievance which we won. The arbitrator ruled that 911 was behind us and the follow on furloughs were economic. The pilots were ordered back on the seniority list with back pay.
There were no negotiations with the company.

Did you forget that HAL is flying A330s and soon A350s(787 competitor)?

Sailing,

You side stepped the question.

Yes, I hold to the idea that allowing Delta the flexibility to push approximately 2,200 pilots out the door while substantially hiring their replacements at different divisions of the same airline is a massive strategic failure in the conception and execution of Section 1.

Results matter. The contract began failing within six months. The reason for the failure was the repeated votes against unity which allowed the alter ego replacement of Delta pilots with pilots Delta was hiring while simultaneously pushing the pilots D-ALPA represented out the door.

Every other pilot group on the property grew and prospered. If you see this only as a September 11th event, then why were other divisions of Delta doing so well and needing thousands of pilots?

And even if this was solely a September 11th event, why couldn't Delta pilots perform Delta flying at other divisions? Could the answer be found in our own contract <:/

The answer is a strategic failure beginning with the decision that "Delta pilots don't fly small jets."

P.S. If it makes you happy, I can add "eventually" to got modified beyond all recognition.

I did... so stack them in there.

ha ha, Leo Mullin used to call me with a recording he had of Jenna Jamison reading the Contract 2000 section 1.

No wonder he needed glasses, that banker was going blind listening to that tape.

Did the company want to use C2K to go into chapter 11? Was it intentionally unmodified until late? Of course it was modified prior to chapter 11... someone help me, I'm trying to build a conspiracy with no facts other than AMR pilots claim that's what AMR is doing. Trying to go chapter 11 on purpose.

Where's my tin foil hat?

I don't have a tin foil hat by the way.

All of you are free to hear what goes on inside my head.