Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

The lawyer is saying that in USAPA because that is what he is being paid to say and pursue (sounds like what we might ought to be doing with our lawyers in something else in the forefront of my mind...).

Nice...I guess the truth and fact don't matter. Ends justify the means?:confused:

80ktsClamp

07-21-2011 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1026699)

Nice...I guess the truth and fact don't matter. Ends justify the means?:confused:

USAPA hired the guy to work on overturning the SLI. Does a defense attorney always give the straight facts? They are paying their attorney to defend them against a fairly obvious murder. While that is a pretty poor analagy, you should be able to infer the usage of said lawyer.

While I don't think USAPA will ever overturn the list, I would like to see ALPA not listen to their lawyers like they are giving them the biblical word, as law is not that. It is flexible and ever changing. ALPA needs to give them guidance on what to do with the law. Understand?

Reroute

07-21-2011 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1026692)

I flew with one of the DPA guys recently and he mentioned just getting access to the ATL crewroom was extremely difficult. I don't want to put words in his mouth but did they have to threaten lawyers? Anybody know?

I ask because if the company was excited about a fractured group shouldn't the DPA be welcomed with open arms and a DPA membership drop box be allowed instead of blocked?

Speaking of that, a Captain I flew with a month or so ago mentioned during the DPA show in ATL he got up to go fill out a card and someone tried to stand in his way, which didn't last long. Did that happen? I wasn't there.

With regards to the Captain filling out a card, How would I know if that happened.

With regards to the ATL crewroom, Amway's not allowed in either. My understanding is that solicitation isn't allowed in a work area, and the Atlanta crewroom is considered a work area. That DPA was informed of that, but did it regardless. The CPO should have thrown them out immediately, but they let them hang around and solicit.

slowplay

07-21-2011 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1026701)

USAPA hired the guy to work on overturning the SLI. Does a defense attorney always give the straight facts?

A good attorney tells the truth attractively from his client's point of view.

The difference between Seham's comments and DPA's FAQ are not reconcilable. That much I do understand. One of them is lying and they are in an attorney client relationship.

Reroute

07-21-2011 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1026667)

That is correct...until the award is issued, the companies are combined, and management agrees to implement the award. When all those things happen, seniority is no longer negotiable. If you know of legal precedent to the contrary, post it

Not true Carl, not according to DPA/USAPA attorney Seham.

According to DPA/USAPA lead attorney. He said "seniority is subject to negotiation." "Seniority is always subject to collective bargaining." DPA attorney Seham. Start about 4 minutes in.

‪Can't Take the Heat - USAPA in the Desert Part 5‬&rlm; - YouTube

forgot to bid

07-21-2011 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1026406)

You say that the statute of limitations has passed for SLI litigation... but wait a minute.. then you go on to say that it CAN be renegotiated because your favorite example, USAPA is trying to do just that.... well... which is it? Personally, a group can try all they want to renegotiate the SLI, but I seriously doubt there would be enough votes to change it now... if that can even happen... but it is YOU that is using the fantasized threat that the DPA founders have some hidden agenda of reopening the SLI debate... yet you keep saying that it cannot be done.. keep throwing the mud in the water alfa... it hurts YOUR case...

Signed..
an independent fence sitter

So brings up a good point, can the SLI be amended or not? I tend to agree with Carl, I don't see how in the world it would ever be allowed to be amended. After all, who was it that put out the SLI? DALPA or arbitrators? So are we to think the DPA can plausibly undo an arbitrated SLI? How?

Carl Spackler

07-21-2011 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 1026686)

We may not get to openers if this keeps up. A fractured pilot group, which is exactly what DPA and those who send in cards are creating,

So if you sign a DPA card, you're not only voting to overturn our SLI, you're voting for not ever getting to a Section 6 opener. I'd be so embarrassed if I was forced to make these kinds of arguments to support my ever weakening position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 1026686)

may not have the credibility to demand significant contractual gains.

It's not any UNION that needs credibility, it's the PILOTS. When we PILOTS continue to allow our bargaining agent to not defend our contract, the PILOTS lose credibility. Our bargaining agent is a failure, unless you're Delta management. Then our bargaining agent is a dream come true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 1026686)

Don't fool yourself, management is watching, they've seen it before and know the play book well.

Indeed they are watching. That's why they did everything they could to keep DPA off the property. DPA had to threaten legal action to get management to back down. Management knows a good thing when they see it, and they're not about to let ALPA go without a fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 1026686)

We have a once in a decade shot at section 6 with a profitable carrier and the "just send in a card to send a message" crowd may be blowing it for 12,000 pilots and their families.

No, the "constructive engagement" crowd is what will blow it for the 12,000 pilots and their families. 25% of the pilots and growing, agree.

Carl

forgot to bid

07-21-2011 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 1026712)

It'd be far more interesting if it was a court filing to discuss and not a youtube video, is there one?

forgot to bid

07-21-2011 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 1026702)

With regards to the Captain filling out a card, Hopw would I know if that happened.

With regards to the ATL crewroom, Amway's not allowed in either. My understanding is that solicitation isn't allowed in a work area, and the Atlanta crewroom is considered a work area. That DPA was informed of that, but did it regardless. The CPO should have thrown them out immediately, but they let them hang around and solicit.

When I was at Coex the folks from ALPA came in to solicit us (via pizza parties) in the IAH crew room to join ALPA and leave IACP. They did the same thing at CAL.

So would this kind of law be a Georgia state law or Federal law that says no union solicitation in a crew room?

Reroute

07-21-2011 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1026697)

Now pay close attention ALPA legal: I know of NO legal precedent to overturn an SLI once the award has been accepted by management, agreed to be implemented by management, and the two airline operations combined. If I'm wrong ALPA legal, you have a great opportunity to prove me wrong. But just to make it a fair fight, go hire a real law firm to research this for you.

Carl

Would DPA's law firm count. According to DPA's law firm "seniority is "always" subject to collective bargaining. I'm just saying........

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