I dont entirely disagree with it, the truth is actually somewhere in the middle. The difficult part is extracting true reality from various revised soundbytes.

We all know AT was in ALPA. I guess that doesn't matter if there is a failure on some front like SLI because there is plausible deniability versus taking responsibility. How many years do you have to be an alpa carrier before alpa takes responsibility for your collective bargaining failures?

I agree with newk's assesment of how the vote will go. After all, it is (only) a minority getting screwed (hard).

Honestly, my comments here are not at all intended to be pro-dpa, I havent brought them up once. My comments are to put a little sunlight on the festering petri dish alpa. My opinion is that the AT MEC is going to (non-unanimously) put the SLI proposal forward for a vote and it will pass. I have been party to many negotiations and I know how the sausage is made. It will be in stone soon enough.

There has been zero discussion of a opening position or where it should shake out. The contract surveys have not even been distributed. It is still being written. What Dalpa should do is construct a opener that reflects the desire of the majority of the pilots based on the contract survey.
If a rep is telling you the MEC had decided on a opening figure at this point he is simply lying. He may have a personal opinion but the MEC has not entered into this discussion. Its to early in the process.
I can tell you from past phone surveys you may not like the opener unless the contract survey comes back quite a bit different. I did not like the numbers I was hearing from last winter. That is why its very important to take several hours and fill the survey out to reflect your wishes.

Exactly what did I post that is incorrect and what did I spin. Please explain.

Does anyone know where to find consolidation requirements after training in the FOM? I'm pretty sure it's 100 hours in 120 days, but I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.:confused:

What you might hear is a LEC Rep giving you a few different approaches that they want someone to think about.

A time value approach where you get a raise of say 15-25% day one then 5-7% for the life.

A restoration approach that will take years to get.

A 25-40% day one, etc.

If they are saying 15% is the best you are going to get, that may be their position. If you do not agree, clarify when them, it is your right, and if you do not like what you hear, you have methods available to you.

I think you're right. If you haven't gotten your 100 hrs and day 120 is approaching you can fly a leg with a check airman to extend it an additional 30 days. If you still don't have it by day 150 you are going to the box for a ride. Call your chief pilot and have him get you a trip(s).

STILL haven't sent in my DPA card.....but if THIS is the best our negotiators have to present (pay-wise) in section 6, it will get very ugly. Long-time ALPA supporter. This truly makes me sad. Am I the only one who remembers the Steenland/McClain exchange where Steenland indicated that these pay-cuts were "...permanent reset of labor wages..." and McClain responded that "...no, these wages/work rules are merely temporary 'safe-harbor' for our company in a perfect storm environment of bad (airline) events..." So the question becomes, 'Who was right?'

Chuck416

Its in the airway manual look there.

2010: SWA-$12B revenue. 6,000 pilots. Revenue/pilot: $2,000,000
DAL: $32B revenue. 12,000 pilots. Revenue/pilot: $2,666,666 :)

PG, Sailing, ACL, etc.

I agree completely with Scambo.

ALPA threw the TWA pilots under the bus. ALPA's (lack of) performance (with respect to the TWA pilots) was adjudicated in a court of law and the jury decided ALPA had failed the TWA pilots.

Less than a month after the verdict in the TWA DFR lawsuit ALPA again under performs for another ALPA pilot group being acquired by a non-ALPA carrier.

I am completely at a loss in trying to grasp exactly what benefit the Delta pilots get by having ALPA represent us. They failed the TWA pilots, they are failing the Air Tran pilots, and they have a track record of poor performance at Delta (IMHO).

As a "Dead-zoner" this next contract is exceedingly important for me. Why would I want a "team" that has demonstrated nothing but mediocrity representing my interests?