Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-27-2011, 08:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Seems as if every aircraft is compromised to chose from. I'll give you that. The E190 has issues but has a nice cabin, the C-Series is awesome but doesn't exist, the 737s and A320s are what they are, and there are a bunch of weird regional jets to compete with the E190 coming out from all over the world.
The best 130ish seat aircraft for us imho is the A319. We've already got them.
But of course if you want to move 100 seaters out of mainline, because evidently you've lost your mind about operational and brand control and are blind to what happens if you finance your competition, but if you want to move it there is only one way to make that happen - ask for scope relief from Delta pilots and convince them to say yes.
That's IF that is the objective. Trying to be an optimist that producing your core product in house still means something.
As to the age of aircraft:
The best 130ish seat aircraft for us imho is the A319. We've already got them.
But of course if you want to move 100 seaters out of mainline, because evidently you've lost your mind about operational and brand control and are blind to what happens if you finance your competition, but if you want to move it there is only one way to make that happen - ask for scope relief from Delta pilots and convince them to say yes.
That's IF that is the objective. Trying to be an optimist that producing your core product in house still means something.
As to the age of aircraft:
You seem to be good at graphs and analysis. I have said this numerous times. IMHO, I really think it would be cheaper, in the long run, to run our own airplanes with our own pilots/company. Initially, outsourcing works. But the inefficiencies of outsourced works and the different variables of product degradation will come to play.
Is there a way you can graph (time line) something like this? Maybe put in variables like:
1) Price to contract DCI
2) Cost of Fuel for DCI
3) Lost customers due to aircraft usage (175s instead of 737s)
4) Lost customers due to "operated by XXXXXXX" I know many family members that will not book a flt on a DCI or Regional Airline
5) Loss of Revenues to DCI strikes and Labor/MGR disputes (ie RAH/F9 vs IBT)
I am almost certain that OUTSOURCING is a COSTLY way of doing business. I just think MGT does it to mitigate the cost of negotiating with MAinline pilots and also securing short term bonuses.
I think if you can graph and prove this, WE WILL GET BACK ALL OF OUR FLYING. THe proof is in the pudding.
TEN
08-27-2011, 08:13 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
08-27-2011, 08:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
For the record, I think we blew a golden opportunity with Compass. But, what about the United guys/gals? They have taken a strong stance on scope restoration. You don't think we should match them?
08-27-2011, 08:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
I posted this in another thread re: Delta’s average salary vs SWA average salary and thought I would put it here as well:
Delta has 314 aircraft that are 737-800 or smaller. That is apx 44% of our fleet and most of these aircraft are larger (better revenue potential) than SWA 737-700s. This means that the other 56% of Delta’s aircraft are much larger and should be much higher paying aircraft bringing the average Delta pilot’s salary up when making a comparison to SWA however that is not the case.
Here are the averages for 2009 and 2010:
Delta’s average... $132,374, $142,800 – (40% of fleet 737-800 or smaller)
SWA’s average... $176,726, $166,673 – (100% of fleet 737-700 or smaller)
AMR’s average.... $137,482, $139,872 – (60% of fleet 737-800 or smaller)
Continental avg.. $150,211, $156,458 – (57% of fleet 737-800 or smaller)
UAL’s average... $125,465, $123,958 – (42% of fleet A320 or smaller)
jetBlue’s avg..... $124,680, $140,546 – (100% of fleet A320 or smaller)
ALK’s average.... $163,096, $150,061 – (90% of fleet 737-800 or smaller)
Based on fleet and average aircraft size we are the next worst paid in the above list. Based on the DOT numbers we easily need a 40K –50K raise to equal SWA if you compare similar sized aircraft. Even ALK and JBL are doing significantly better than Delta narrow body pilots.
The interesting number here is Continental’s avg. No wonder their management offered them a cut-and-paste of Delta’s contract. I wonder why these numbers weren’t included in the contract comparison.
Source
Delta has 314 aircraft that are 737-800 or smaller. That is apx 44% of our fleet and most of these aircraft are larger (better revenue potential) than SWA 737-700s. This means that the other 56% of Delta’s aircraft are much larger and should be much higher paying aircraft bringing the average Delta pilot’s salary up when making a comparison to SWA however that is not the case.
Here are the averages for 2009 and 2010:
Delta’s average... $132,374, $142,800 – (40% of fleet 737-800 or smaller)
SWA’s average... $176,726, $166,673 – (100% of fleet 737-700 or smaller)
AMR’s average.... $137,482, $139,872 – (60% of fleet 737-800 or smaller)
Continental avg.. $150,211, $156,458 – (57% of fleet 737-800 or smaller)
UAL’s average... $125,465, $123,958 – (42% of fleet A320 or smaller)
jetBlue’s avg..... $124,680, $140,546 – (100% of fleet A320 or smaller)
ALK’s average.... $163,096, $150,061 – (90% of fleet 737-800 or smaller)
Based on fleet and average aircraft size we are the next worst paid in the above list. Based on the DOT numbers we easily need a 40K –50K raise to equal SWA if you compare similar sized aircraft. Even ALK and JBL are doing significantly better than Delta narrow body pilots.
The interesting number here is Continental’s avg. No wonder their management offered them a cut-and-paste of Delta’s contract. I wonder why these numbers weren’t included in the contract comparison.
Source
08-27-2011, 09:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Yep, its all the doors and the brake. We've been watching the out times to see how it works. Had a lot of time to fool around with that last week at JFK. Beacon is totally out of the loop now. When you have a tow on, resetting the break at the gate and then releasing it adds the tow in time to the clock.
08-27-2011, 10:12 AM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
So I'm a reserve guy, picked up a 4 day yesterday. Irene cancels our sunday run to BOS. Captain gets a domicile layover but they cancel my last day which is a DFW turn and give it out as a white slip to a REG guy. What gives? Do they not give domicile layovers to RES guys?
08-27-2011, 10:22 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
So I'm a reserve guy, picked up a 4 day yesterday. Irene cancels our sunday run to BOS. Captain gets a domicile layover but they cancel my last day which is a DFW turn and give it out as a white slip to a REG guy. What gives? Do they not give domicile layovers to RES guys?
08-27-2011, 11:14 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Okay, wait, so there is a rumor that PG and Carl are the same person via a sock puppeteer?
I knew it.
Even with all of the internal financials and focus group data Delta had to offer I don't think that could be accurately drawn up.
I think if you want to show how damaging it is you point to the fact that combined we had 1060 mainline aircraft in 2000 and now we have 1354 but only 727 now with 627 regional. I'd like to know what the mainline to regional ratio was in 1990 and 2000?
Or you point to RAH...
we're playing with fire given RAH, Skywest and TSA know that Delta wants to end the guaranteed gravy train. They have no option but to explore other options.
I knew it.
FTB,
You seem to be good at graphs and analysis. I have said this numerous times. IMHO, I really think it would be cheaper, in the long run, to run our own airplanes with our own pilots/company. Initially, outsourcing works. But the inefficiencies of outsourced works and the different variables of product degradation will come to play.
Is there a way you can graph (time line) something like this? Maybe put in variables like:
1) Price to contract DCI
2) Cost of Fuel for DCI
3) Lost customers due to aircraft usage (175s instead of 737s)
4) Lost customers due to "operated by XXXXXXX" I know many family members that will not book a flt on a DCI or Regional Airline
5) Loss of Revenues to DCI strikes and Labor/MGR disputes (ie RAH/F9 vs IBT)
I am almost certain that OUTSOURCING is a COSTLY way of doing business. I just think MGT does it to mitigate the cost of negotiating with MAinline pilots and also securing short term bonuses.
I think if you can graph and prove this, WE WILL GET BACK ALL OF OUR FLYING. THe proof is in the pudding.
TEN
You seem to be good at graphs and analysis. I have said this numerous times. IMHO, I really think it would be cheaper, in the long run, to run our own airplanes with our own pilots/company. Initially, outsourcing works. But the inefficiencies of outsourced works and the different variables of product degradation will come to play.
Is there a way you can graph (time line) something like this? Maybe put in variables like:
1) Price to contract DCI
2) Cost of Fuel for DCI
3) Lost customers due to aircraft usage (175s instead of 737s)
4) Lost customers due to "operated by XXXXXXX" I know many family members that will not book a flt on a DCI or Regional Airline
5) Loss of Revenues to DCI strikes and Labor/MGR disputes (ie RAH/F9 vs IBT)
I am almost certain that OUTSOURCING is a COSTLY way of doing business. I just think MGT does it to mitigate the cost of negotiating with MAinline pilots and also securing short term bonuses.
I think if you can graph and prove this, WE WILL GET BACK ALL OF OUR FLYING. THe proof is in the pudding.
TEN
I think if you want to show how damaging it is you point to the fact that combined we had 1060 mainline aircraft in 2000 and now we have 1354 but only 727 now with 627 regional. I'd like to know what the mainline to regional ratio was in 1990 and 2000?
Or you point to RAH...
we're playing with fire given RAH, Skywest and TSA know that Delta wants to end the guaranteed gravy train. They have no option but to explore other options.
08-27-2011, 11:20 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
The storm hit Albemarle Sound and made a slight jog to the right and now the new computer models have it keeping that path and going slightly right of Manhattan instead of right over top. Going over top of Manhattan would've put the northeast quadrant of that storm right on top of JFK. That'd been bad news.
So my prediction- the storm strengthens a tad and goes back inland and towards its original NYC track and the northeast quadrant nails JFK.
JFK is ruined. All the terminals are knocked down except for one- terminal 3. Forever to be known as "the unsinkable terminal 3." Having survived the storm it provides Delta as the only airline capable of operating out of JFK for the next year.
So my prediction- the storm strengthens a tad and goes back inland and towards its original NYC track and the northeast quadrant nails JFK.
JFK is ruined. All the terminals are knocked down except for one- terminal 3. Forever to be known as "the unsinkable terminal 3." Having survived the storm it provides Delta as the only airline capable of operating out of JFK for the next year.
08-27-2011, 11:25 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Having realized the incredible gift of God laid upon Delta's lap with terminal 3 being the only surviving JFK terminal, Delta management quickly reaches out for guidance of how best to handle being the dominating airline in a market place and references historical Delta managerial decisions from the past.
After a short bit of research, Delta announces it is pulling out of JFK.
Oh and the wifi is out in seat 16F.
After a short bit of research, Delta announces it is pulling out of JFK.
Oh and the wifi is out in seat 16F.
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