Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-30-2011 | 12:22 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
88;
It is timing. It would be seen as rhetoric if it went on for that long. The pilots would have issue fatigue as well. It is all about timing, having us hit our peak and the correct time for the message that we all want delivered.
Yes the message need to be delivered, but you must admit that some just get tired of beating the same drum for so long. You can see that with pilots that come and go on this board. Imagine what it is like with 12,000 pilots when you need their support and all at once. Most would have checked out six months go. Look at the apathy of our group, do you think that they could really stay on message with the level of intensity needed for that long? Many could, yes, but we need everyone that way.
It is not an excuse for the actions of a few, but a reason of as to why I think now is the time to start getting the message out. We could be prepping for a marathon in section 6 and no one will know until they are at least half way though the race.
It is timing. It would be seen as rhetoric if it went on for that long. The pilots would have issue fatigue as well. It is all about timing, having us hit our peak and the correct time for the message that we all want delivered.
Yes the message need to be delivered, but you must admit that some just get tired of beating the same drum for so long. You can see that with pilots that come and go on this board. Imagine what it is like with 12,000 pilots when you need their support and all at once. Most would have checked out six months go. Look at the apathy of our group, do you think that they could really stay on message with the level of intensity needed for that long? Many could, yes, but we need everyone that way.
It is not an excuse for the actions of a few, but a reason of as to why I think now is the time to start getting the message out. We could be prepping for a marathon in section 6 and no one will know until they are at least half way though the race.
Sorry, ACL. I'm not buying it. The reason for apathy under these conditions is that we haven't had appropriate leadership. We've been a rudderless ship just floundering around with no direction or any defined destination. Using the ship analogy... you don't wander about aimlessly (for FOUR YEARS for crying out loud!) and then decide at the last minute where you're going and how you're going to get there. That will for sure get you a crew that isn't engaged anymore.
There's a reason successful companies and organizations have compelling, appropriate mission statements and make sure everyone is on board with that. And I don't know of a single successful company or organization that keeps their mission hidden and then let's all their people in on the secret as they are approaching the home stretch. That would make no sense at all.
08-30-2011 | 12:28 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Delta 1067,
Go to your fleet page on the Delta Ops web site. Then the left side has your CQ briefing.
Oral should be limitations and recall items. Recall lists are not verbatim. Good to also know typically asked questions about windshear, GPWZ, MEA, MOCA, type stuff. Sim will be non jeopardy "first look" maneuvers, then training and a LOFT event.
We got an engine failure at about 700 feet in the mountains, mostly it was a fly the procedure, then the checklists, exercise. It was good practice to vary the timing of the typical V1 cut and more operationally oriented. Also has a engine failure on track to practice driftdown procedures. A little time in Section 9 of the Airway Manual helps me knock the rust off stuff I rarely see.
Straightforward, good learning environment. No gotcha's.
Go to your fleet page on the Delta Ops web site. Then the left side has your CQ briefing.
Oral should be limitations and recall items. Recall lists are not verbatim. Good to also know typically asked questions about windshear, GPWZ, MEA, MOCA, type stuff. Sim will be non jeopardy "first look" maneuvers, then training and a LOFT event.
We got an engine failure at about 700 feet in the mountains, mostly it was a fly the procedure, then the checklists, exercise. It was good practice to vary the timing of the typical V1 cut and more operationally oriented. Also has a engine failure on track to practice driftdown procedures. A little time in Section 9 of the Airway Manual helps me knock the rust off stuff I rarely see.
Straightforward, good learning environment. No gotcha's.
08-30-2011 | 12:41 PM
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
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From: Light Chop
To the Bar-88-ACL discussion, do the 76 staters exist because they can't buy bigger ones for DCI or because they're the best righ sized platforms available?
I like ACLs idea to sunset contracts over fighting to win a plane that the company doesn't want in reality. It'd be like fighting to get 50 seaters, nobody wants to do that, why? Because we see them as going away anyways. The 76 seaters are just bigger versions, so they'll be here longer so we discuss them but are they really Charlie Sheen winners? Or are they here because they fit our scope clause?
Kind of like the ERJ-140. What is that? It's a 50 seater adjusted to APAs scope clause, nobody else wanted them. The rest wanted 50 seaters because 51 requires a second FA. Just like Beech 1900s and J32s seat 19, 20 requires a FA. Or 37 seat E120s and Dash 8s, I believe at the time those were all Part 135 airplanes and that was the max size you could have a Part 135 scheduled air carrier because 38 required Part 121 ops. I may be wrong but I believe that's why.
So take away Section 1, make DCI illegal, all flying in-house, what would we really have on the small end? and if 76 seaters aren't them, do we fight for them or like in the case of the 50 seaters we wait and see if external factors take care of the mental glitch that brought them here.
Check, move over, I'm coming to your bunker. We can play angry birds if you want?
I like ACLs idea to sunset contracts over fighting to win a plane that the company doesn't want in reality. It'd be like fighting to get 50 seaters, nobody wants to do that, why? Because we see them as going away anyways. The 76 seaters are just bigger versions, so they'll be here longer so we discuss them but are they really Charlie Sheen winners? Or are they here because they fit our scope clause?
Kind of like the ERJ-140. What is that? It's a 50 seater adjusted to APAs scope clause, nobody else wanted them. The rest wanted 50 seaters because 51 requires a second FA. Just like Beech 1900s and J32s seat 19, 20 requires a FA. Or 37 seat E120s and Dash 8s, I believe at the time those were all Part 135 airplanes and that was the max size you could have a Part 135 scheduled air carrier because 38 required Part 121 ops. I may be wrong but I believe that's why.
So take away Section 1, make DCI illegal, all flying in-house, what would we really have on the small end? and if 76 seaters aren't them, do we fight for them or like in the case of the 50 seaters we wait and see if external factors take care of the mental glitch that brought them here.
Check, move over, I'm coming to your bunker. We can play angry birds if you want?
08-30-2011 | 12:43 PM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
So then we are staffing the reserves for this category out of ATL... got it. We actually have 6 whole days in September where reserve available exceeds required in NY. And that is with the loss of NINE international destinations next month. Atlanta, conveniently has 6 days where reserve coverage is NOT in excess. And in case you didn't notice, in the last AE, there was no net gain in the manning in NY. therefore, there is no end in sight for this.
If the company wants to run the reserve system with the Atlanta base, that's fine just as long as it's clearly delineated in the mythical manning formula. And let me be perfectly clear on this: Swapping between bases is not the solution to this problem, so enjoy your regular line trips that you cannot drop. Maybe I'll get that MEX qual so you don't get so many GSs per month... Cause once I have it, EVERYBODY is gettin qualified.
Last edited by tsquare; 08-30-2011 at 12:58 PM.
08-30-2011 | 12:53 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
Likes: 1
From: Urban chicken rancher.
too bad it wasn't a GS.
So then we are staffing the reserves for this category out of ATL... got it. We actually have 6 whole days in September where reserve available exceeds required in NY. And that is with the loss of NINE international destinations next month. Atlanta, conveniently has 6 days where reserve coverage is NOT in excess. And in case you didn't notice, in the last AE, there was no net gain in the manning in NY. therefore, there is no end in sight for this.
If the company wants to run the reserve system with the Atlanta base, that's fine just as long as it's clearly delineated in the mythical manning formula. And let me be perfectly clear on this: Swapping between bases is not the solution to this problem, so enjoy your regular line trips that you cannot drop. Maybe I'll get that MEX qual so you don't get so many GSs per month... Cause once I have it, EVERYBODY is gettin qualified.
So then we are staffing the reserves for this category out of ATL... got it. We actually have 6 whole days in September where reserve available exceeds required in NY. And that is with the loss of NINE international destinations next month. Atlanta, conveniently has 6 days where reserve coverage is NOT in excess. And in case you didn't notice, in the last AE, there was no net gain in the manning in NY. therefore, there is no end in sight for this.
If the company wants to run the reserve system with the Atlanta base, that's fine just as long as it's clearly delineated in the mythical manning formula. And let me be perfectly clear on this: Swapping between bases is not the solution to this problem, so enjoy your regular line trips that you cannot drop. Maybe I'll get that MEX qual so you don't get so many GSs per month... Cause once I have it, EVERYBODY is gettin qualified.
Hell, we're covering NYC trips with LAX reserves these days. Just got back from one.
08-30-2011 | 12:59 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Without the false economy of outsourcing, airlines choose the 737 and A320 as their narrow body domestic jets. Even JetBlue is reducing their E190 order book and stating
"The E190 is performing very well as our new, shorter-haul market aircraft, often serving to build the demand in the market for eventual up-gauge to our A320," said JetBlue Chief Executive Dave Barger said. "We are now at the point where the balance between frequency and capacity is tipping in favor of capacity, and we are exercising our most strategic asset—our order book—to better match capacity with growing network demand."
08-30-2011 | 01:00 PM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: 767er Captain
Seems like everybody is. I guess that's fine, but the rules on dropping trips needs to be changed contractually if this is going to continue. I'll say this again too... SWAPPING BETWEEN BASES IS NOT THE SOLUTION
08-30-2011 | 01:02 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
The answer is so clear that I'm surprised that Bar just won't see it. DALPA can't do this because they are affiliated with a national union that is UTTERLY CONFLICTED on this issue of scope. That's why DALPA will remain silent. The conflict of interest is not "alleged", it is real. It is the duct tape over the mouth of ALPA.
Carl
08-30-2011 | 01:04 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
T Square,
Until their computer accounts for the revenue bumped by deadheading reserve pilots, a guy <70 hours is "free."
Probably best not make any assumptions about NYC staffing based on anything that happened this week.
Until their computer accounts for the revenue bumped by deadheading reserve pilots, a guy <70 hours is "free."
Probably best not make any assumptions about NYC staffing based on anything that happened this week.
08-30-2011 | 01:09 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Hey Carl,
This is probably the most honest and revealing post on this subject today
Check is a great guy and he's absolutely correct in this post. This is how it is with many of our pilots.
This is probably the most honest and revealing post on this subject today
I don't know, acl. You hang out with too many 40 year olds. Some of "the pilots" might have another view.
This forum is sometimes too much of an echo chamber. We all like underboob and we hate outsourcing.
Just for fun, let me poke the hornet's nest ---
Most won't say it out loud because its not politically correct among the younger First Officers who post on the Internet, but there are more than a few 50 something year old Captains who definitely don't want to spend a bunch of negotiating capital to try and bring 76 seat jets to the mainline.
Hold the line on scope? --> fine. If the young guys insist. But "recapture" the 70 or 76 seaters? --> No way. That ship has sailed. Bringing Compass and that flying back to mainline was a losing proposition that would have kept us tied in knots for years. Moak cut the chain on that stuck anchor just in time.
Maybe those of us already at the mainline are better off in the long run if we facilitate outsourcing of small gauge flying and just allow the company to continue the bidding wars and whipsaw tactics at DCI.
If RJ pilots want to work for minimum wage, doesn't that subsidize our pay rates?
Isn't it better for us if Delta is more profitable?
And we should be careful saying Section 1 is not for sale.
There are a lot of retirement deadzoners who would be willing to entertain offers.
I'll bet the survey results will be different than the APC conventional wisdom.
(now heading for the bunker)
This forum is sometimes too much of an echo chamber. We all like underboob and we hate outsourcing.
Just for fun, let me poke the hornet's nest ---
Most won't say it out loud because its not politically correct among the younger First Officers who post on the Internet, but there are more than a few 50 something year old Captains who definitely don't want to spend a bunch of negotiating capital to try and bring 76 seat jets to the mainline.
Hold the line on scope? --> fine. If the young guys insist. But "recapture" the 70 or 76 seaters? --> No way. That ship has sailed. Bringing Compass and that flying back to mainline was a losing proposition that would have kept us tied in knots for years. Moak cut the chain on that stuck anchor just in time.
Maybe those of us already at the mainline are better off in the long run if we facilitate outsourcing of small gauge flying and just allow the company to continue the bidding wars and whipsaw tactics at DCI.
If RJ pilots want to work for minimum wage, doesn't that subsidize our pay rates?
Isn't it better for us if Delta is more profitable?
And we should be careful saying Section 1 is not for sale.
There are a lot of retirement deadzoners who would be willing to entertain offers.
I'll bet the survey results will be different than the APC conventional wisdom.
(now heading for the bunker)
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