Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-08-2011 | 12:37 PM
Runs with scissors
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
When we had a real cap your pay in a month could not exceed the cap unless you had a GS. If the cap was 75 hours and your actual credit for the month ended up being 82 hours you only got paid for 75. The 7 extra hours rolled over into next month. When you reached a point where they could drop the shortest trip on your line in a month and not put you below the cap then that drop was mandatory and automatic. So if you carried in 12 hours in bow wave and your line was 74 hours with a 10 hour two day as one of the trips you were now projected at 86 with the bow wave. The two day trip would have to be dropped and you would then have 76 hours. This automatic trip drop also applied in the current month to reroutes ect.. that generated extra time. I once had a 1 day trip turn into 7 days. All the credit caused the rest of my trips that month to be dropped.
In conjunction with Bow Wave we had spillback. If you had a month you did not feel like working a lot you could take any trip in the following month departing before the 10th and spill it back to the previous month to fill that month up. You could then pick up more that month. A nice feature when you wanted to build some big off time blocks.
The beauty of bow waves is that it removed all incentive to try and work more unless it was a GS. Back then we used 14 to 15 pilots per narrow body aircraft. Today its 11 to 12 and the aircraft utilization is up. Jobs are way down.
In conjunction with Bow Wave we had spillback. If you had a month you did not feel like working a lot you could take any trip in the following month departing before the 10th and spill it back to the previous month to fill that month up. You could then pick up more that month. A nice feature when you wanted to build some big off time blocks.
The beauty of bow waves is that it removed all incentive to try and work more unless it was a GS. Back then we used 14 to 15 pilots per narrow body aircraft. Today its 11 to 12 and the aircraft utilization is up. Jobs are way down.
Here's the quick "Math for Morons" on manning and caps. If the cap was 75, and then everyone can fly another 7.5 hours (10%), if all 12,000 of us did that, the company will need 10% fewer pilots, which is 1,200 fewer, or just knock off the bottom 10% in every category and the bottom 1,200 go out the door.
Anyone still think trip parking is a good deal?
09-08-2011 | 12:56 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Corporate Pilot
Here's the quick "Math for Morons" on manning and caps. If the cap was 75, and then everyone can fly another 7.5 hours (10%), if all 12,000 of us did that, the company will need 10% fewer pilots, which is 1,200 fewer, or just knock off the bottom 10% in every category and the bottom 1,200 go out the door.
Anyone still think trip parking is a good deal?
Anyone still think trip parking is a good deal?
Since I'm wanting to come to DAL my vote is for the opposite (even though my vote doesn't count
). I'd love to see the need to hire an additional 1200!
09-08-2011 | 12:56 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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I'm amazed how many pilots want to fly to the FAR limits. We're our own worst enemies. I like the old way sailingfun is talking about. Everyone gets paid 75 hours per month unless you greenslip. You can fly more if you want, but it just gets banked so you will have to fly less sometime later. I love that idea. For some reason, pilots don't think of the consequences of everyone flying max schedules. It requires less pilots which means everyone is on lesser paying equipment working more for less money.
09-08-2011 | 01:30 PM
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I'm amazed how many pilots want to fly to the FAR limits. We're our own worst enemies. I like the old way sailingfun is talking about. Everyone gets paid 75 hours per month unless you greenslip. You can fly more if you want, but it just gets banked so you will have to fly less sometime later. I love that idea. For some reason, pilots don't think of the consequences of everyone flying max schedules. It requires less pilots which means everyone is on lesser paying equipment working more for less money.
09-08-2011 | 02:16 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
I'm amazed how many pilots want to fly to the FAR limits. We're our own worst enemies. I like the old way sailingfun is talking about. Everyone gets paid 75 hours per month unless you greenslip. You can fly more if you want, but it just gets banked so you will have to fly less sometime later. I love that idea. For some reason, pilots don't think of the consequences of everyone flying max schedules. It requires less pilots which means everyone is on lesser paying equipment working more for less money.
09-08-2011 | 02:30 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
All the talk of the old days are great, but that ship has sailed my friends. We all voted for more productivity, and we got it. No corporation is going to retreat on that point. We may see some gains in areas like vacation and training pay, but bet your bottom dollar, the goal is to have everyone fly as much as possible, up to the FAR limit, and it will be all we can do to keep things from going any further.
Why? Because DALPA believes in constructive engagement with the company, and productivity leads to profits, which leads to more money to pay for our new contract. When the survey starts, the question you will inevitably be asked by ALPA reps is " How do you propose we pay for that? We don't get anything for free when we are bargaining."
Up until now, it's been a trade for productivity and RJ's. I do think that we should be very wary of extending productivity any further than it has already gone, with the exception of the company being able to make strides in fleet commonality and trip pairings. We truly are our own worst enemy in that regard, and if you give em enough rope (us), we'll gladly slip the noose around our necks for a few extra bucks. That is a time tested and proven truth. Guys were green slipping like crazy and selling vacation while our own pilots were on furlough. This trip parking scam is nothing more than the latest version of *%$@ your buddy.
Why? Because DALPA believes in constructive engagement with the company, and productivity leads to profits, which leads to more money to pay for our new contract. When the survey starts, the question you will inevitably be asked by ALPA reps is " How do you propose we pay for that? We don't get anything for free when we are bargaining."
Up until now, it's been a trade for productivity and RJ's. I do think that we should be very wary of extending productivity any further than it has already gone, with the exception of the company being able to make strides in fleet commonality and trip pairings. We truly are our own worst enemy in that regard, and if you give em enough rope (us), we'll gladly slip the noose around our necks for a few extra bucks. That is a time tested and proven truth. Guys were green slipping like crazy and selling vacation while our own pilots were on furlough. This trip parking scam is nothing more than the latest version of *%$@ your buddy.
Last edited by flyallnite; 09-08-2011 at 02:41 PM.
09-08-2011 | 02:53 PM
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Why? Because DALPA believes in constructive engagement with the company, and productivity leads to profits, which leads to more money to pay for our new contract. When the survey starts, the question you will inevitably be asked by ALPA reps is " How do you propose we pay for that? We don't get anything for free when we are bargaining."
.
Let's see...just in case they do ask the question... and forgot what has happened since 2004.
42% paycuts
Lost pension
Work Rules
RJs galore
Sick Leave
Code Shares everywhere
09-08-2011 | 03:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
If DALPA is dumb enough to ask... "How do you propose we pay for that?".... then it is clear they are in way over their heads! That question might even turn up immortalized as a new green bag sticker for DPA!
Let's see...just in case they do ask the question... and forgot what has happened since 2004.
42% paycuts
Lost pension
Work Rules
RJs galore
Sick Leave
Code Shares everywhere
Let's see...just in case they do ask the question... and forgot what has happened since 2004.
42% paycuts
Lost pension
Work Rules
RJs galore
Sick Leave
Code Shares everywhere
Paycuts... Restored already... LM said so!
Lost Pension... But now you have improved "B" plan
Work Rules... let's talk, but gotta compete with SWA!
RJ's... already traded. Done deal. ALPA says they're "Savin our Bacon".
Sick Leave... lets talk, but first, meet the company Doc!
Code Share... ALPA already touts it as beneficial to the DL pilot.
It will be interesting to see if the results of the Contract Survey get spun into the same old dog and pony show that they've always been. Just tired of hearing the same old excuses for mediocrity.
I think the biggest question that nobody's asking right now is how long do we want the contract duration to be? There are upsides and downsides to each possibility, but the consequences could be enormous if we don't play that card very carefully.
Last edited by flyallnite; 09-08-2011 at 03:25 PM.
09-08-2011 | 04:47 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
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From: 3fidy
Had a SWA jumpseater the other day saying SWA is planning to flood the West Coast to Hawaii flying in the fairly near term. I thought Alaska was already doing that. 
09-08-2011 | 04:49 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
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From: 3fidy
Off topic but had a SWA jumpseater the other day saying SWA is planning to flood the West Coast to Hawaii flying in the fairly near term. I thought Alaska was already doing that.
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