Heyas T,

Check out the Council 20 update from 9/23. You can find it under the LEC links after you sign into the DALPA site. I won't post it here, since you can find it easily enough. I read it and was almost sick.

Not a rumor. These are active plans under consideration. SOME won't be decided by your elected representatives, but ONLY by the Executive Committee...made up only of MEC Chairmen (yea, the guys/gals not elected by the membership).

We just went through a gigantic ****ing contest (which was unnecessary according to the Parliamentarian) regarding the 3 vs 4 man NC for the second time, and all of a sudden THIS gem pops up at the national level?

Maximum of three negotiators

Of all the potential bloat, they want to cut ONE GUY doing actual work? And how about that timing? Coincidence?

FORTUNATELY this sorta got shot down, otherwise we'd have to hold ANOTHER NC election. It got modded to permit 4 man teams if the company is ponying up for one guy.

Other gems:

Eliminate non-status representatives
Close LEC offices
Potential option to replace the non-status representative with an LEC Executive Administrator (EA)- APPOINTED NOT ELECTED

Read the comments by the Council 20 Chairman. He was concerned not only with the contents of these proposals, but the manner in which they were delivered.

The Compass sale was facilitated by one thing...the relaxation of scope permitting the sale of Compass without a DC-9 replacement on the mainline property.

Let me repeat that...the sale of Compass was PREVENTED from happening unless there was a DC-9 replacement. There was NO facilitation to sell Compass until AFTER the JCBA. THEY COULDN'T SELL COMPASS UNTIL WE LET THEM.

This restriction was present in the fNWA PWA, and in the JCBA, it vanished. It was removed on purpose and was a relaxation in scope no matter how you slice it.

Nu

All the pro alpa guys always spout that alpa is is controlled at local levels and if any changes are needed work at the local level to change things.When the meet and confer with dci carriers come up,they always say national has nothing to do with that and that national doesn't have anything control with our contract.What better way to take care of this by removing some local presence and giving more control to national.

09-27-2011 | 07:23 AM

#76602

tsquare

No longer cares

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 12,109

Likes: 0

From: 767er Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential

Did they really propose getting ALPA costs under control by whacking LEC expenses and not even mention that hydra-headed dues-eating monster in Herndon?

They been hangin with Barry.. cause.. you know... democratic administrations are friendly to labor, so that MUST be the way to do things... right? Centralize gubbamint...

09-27-2011 | 07:29 AM

#76603

tsquare

No longer cares

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 12,109

Likes: 0

From: 767er Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1234

Over 50% of us don't work on holidays too.

Sorry, I just think that is a lame excuse to despise those that work for the union on our behalf. Before you get upset, I do think that someone from the union should be contactable on a 24/7 basis, with an actual monitored response time, but I don't think that the entire union leaders and staff need to be sitting in the office on Christmas.

I am happy for you that you are senior enough to not work holidays. My seniority is a choice and I am not complaining about that. That being said. We are a 24/7 worldwide operation. There needs to ALWAYS be a point of contact. It is good business for our association to be available. It marginalizes them to not be. Frankly, if something happens on a weekend, ALPA is the LAST thing that enters my mind because I know how difficult it will be to get in touch with anybody.

I don't despise them either. Never said that.

09-27-2011 | 07:48 AM

#76604

johnso29

Moderator

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 13,088

Likes: 0

From: B757/767

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExAF

Actually you made MY point. YOU have more people under you (in your seat/base) due to the equipment/personnel shuffling done by the company. I have a couple of more people under me (in my seat/base) for the same reason. BOTH of us are actually closer to the bottom of the list than before due to some 25 or so junior people that have left for greener pastures. Just because our seniority number has gone up doesn't mean we have "moved up." We don't "move up" until we have fresh meat on the senority list under us. We are both stil "x" numbers away from hitting the street. That won't change until we hire. After 2 furloughs, "x" is still the most important number on the seniority list to me and that is the movement I'm concerned about.

No, your missing my point. My relative seniority on the seniority list has IMPROVED since the arbitrated list. I know have MORE people junior to me on the seniority list, not just in my category. Even though we have less pilots now then when the SLI was released, I now still have MORE junior to me then when the SLI was released. My seniority company wide has improved. Or as you put it, I have more fresh meat under me on the seniority list. I'm pretty junior though, so it doesn't take much.

Last edited by johnso29; 09-27-2011 at 08:12 AM.

09-27-2011 | 08:01 AM

#76605

acl65pilot

Happy to be here

Joined: Jun 2006

Posts: 18,563

Likes: 0

From: A-320A

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

T;
I totally agree. I like the idea of the duty pilot position, but imp, it needs to be expanded to more than just reps. The reason the reps do it is because 1) It helps them understand contract issues as they solve those issues for us and 2) They are covered under 24J while doing this position.

If it is a money thing, I get it. We are way under budget, and this may somewhere we want to either pay FPL to man 24/7 or make it a volunteer position where guys do it on their off time.

The current system gets the reps a week at the MEC offices once a year, and that is good, but they really are busy with all of the other stuff that is required of them. Tweaking this program may be a good thing for the pilots and for DALPA.

09-27-2011 | 10:03 AM

#76606

dragon

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 1,601

Likes: 0

From: Dismayed

Found this on the DALPA site: It's all public information so thought it might help some with their surveys.

Delta Pilots C2K Restoration Facts
(Contract 2013 Survey Reference Guide)

2004 LOA #46 concessions saves Delta nearly $1B per year[1]

2006 LOA #51 Pilot Pension termination savings potential excess of $1B[2]

Concessions1: Since 2004 (just a few of the highlights)

32.5% Pay Cut = 29.5% when adjusted for pay rate increases through 2012
(Requires a 41.5% increase to restore C2K w/o a COLA)
(PMNW) 29% total Pay Cut = 5% when adjusted for 2012 B757 pay rates
(received a 33% increase to this rate)
Per Diem Reduced (Int. $2.90 to $2.50, Dom. $2.40 to $2.00)
Night Pay lost (CA - $15, FO - $10)
International Pay reduced (CA - $8 to $6, FO - $6 to $4)
Reduced Vacation Day Value (3.75 to 3.0)
Lost 6th week of Vacation
Sick Leave Bank system greatly reduced & diluted
Accident Leave reduced (120 days to 90 days)
Change to PBS scheduling system with loss of reserve High/Low Yellow Slip
Monthly Cap system changed to ALV reducing the minimum monthly guarantees

Delta 2008 Contract vs Industry Leaders[3]: (a few more highlights)

Delta carries 160 million passengers per year[4]

Delta has successfully raised fares 10 times this year $6 - $10 round trip[5]

Delta made $952M in “Baggage Fees” alone during 2010[6]

A $1B contract restoration would cost $6.25 per passengers
(This happens to be the price of Delta’s “Fruit & Cheese Plate” or a Venti, Non-fat Latte)

Can Delta Air Lines afford to restore C2K ? or even C2K+ ?

Tell DALPA what YOU think, fill out the survey AND contact your LEC representatives.

[1] DALPA 2011 Contract History

[2] AirWise News, US Bankruptcy Court – Reuters, 9/5/06

[3] DALPA 2011 Contract Comparison

[4] Delta News Release 7/6/11, news.delta.com

[5] J.P.Morgan – Jamie Baker, USA Today 9/9/11

[6] AirlineReporter.com 7/1/11

09-27-2011 | 10:08 AM

#76607

Superpilot92

Underboob King

Joined: May 2005

Posts: 4,412

Likes: 0

From: Guppy Commander

I submitted the survey and have since gone back a few times to write more in the comment boxes. It's very important to spell everything out in the comment boxes to lay the framework on what everyone's expectations are. I've filled up the compensation and scope boxes ;-).

Scope is a non-starter and I hope the union and company knows this.

09-27-2011 | 10:21 AM

#76608

acl65pilot

Happy to be here

Joined: Jun 2006

Posts: 18,563

Likes: 0

From: A-320A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpilot92

Very True. I read the entire survey, and then wrote down where I thought it did not reach a conclusion I wanted to convey. That will be what I use those 750 character spaces for.

Last edited by acl65pilot; 09-27-2011 at 11:01 AM. Reason: RIF

09-27-2011 | 10:32 AM

#76609

shiznit

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2009

Posts: 2,642

Likes: 0

From: right for a long, long time

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

I do like the min percentage raise. Remember though a raise can be taken as total value to the PWA not hourly, so make sure that when you put your number in there, you include what you assume the total contract should be not just your hourly rate. Again, I would spell this out in a comment box.

Not quite..... It is for pay rates in this question.

Quote:

28. Please specify in the text box below the minimum acceptable pay rate increase, as a whole-number percentage, for year 1 of our next contract.

09-27-2011 | 10:48 AM

#76610

gloopy

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jul 2010

Posts: 12,831

Likes: 172

From: window seat

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant

Why is it a "separate issue entirely"? Your MEC made it's bed when it argued that ASA and CMR were separate even though we were all owned by the same company. The chickens are coming home to roost and it looks like some of you are tired of wading thru the chicken $heet...So sorry, so sad....Enjoy the bed you made...

Actions have consequences and we are all seeing them now play out....Too bad ego's didn't want to fly little airplanes...

I explained why it was a separate issue relative to what was being discussed but you chopped it. I was referring to the false arguement that if there is a wholly owned subsidiary flying permitted types that means we must allow non wholly owned subsidiaries to fly whatever they want as long as its on another certificate. That interpretation, DCI/PID/RJDC issues aside, is asinine.

And your MEC made its bed with your DOH (or anything greater than a staple, even one with certain protections) dreamshot and you have been riding high on the post 9-11 small jet outsourcing heyday, which is rapidly coming to a close. Regionals are going bankrupt, sending planes to the boneyards and losing flying now. You may be at a powerhouse today, but so was Comair not that long ago. Your chickens (arrogant MEC's and massive tactical miscalculations and overestimations) too will come home to roost.

Last edited by gloopy; 09-27-2011 at 11:22 AM.