Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1061363)

It's not that we didn't want to fly little airplanes...it's just that we didn't want to risk that somehow you'd end up on our seniority list.

Carl

Originally Posted by BoyFromSouth (Post 1061435)

Does anyone know if we are allowed to W/S or G/S during our vacation. I was almost positive we could not, but recently someone told me we were allowed to W/S.

I think they were yanking my chain.

Thanks
BFS

Originally Posted by poostain (Post 1061470)

Alright you super fantastic sexy scope gurus.

I am stuck on question 13 "the list" please break down how you numbered and why PLEASE!

Here is the list and it is not in a priority order, just as it was listed in the survey

Amount of flying done by DCI carriers (e.g. Compass, Comair, etc.)

Successorship/Merger with another carrier

Fragmentation/Transfer of Assets

Change of Control

Cabotage

Alter Ego

Subcontracting

Bankruptcy 1113 Protection

Foreign Ownership

Originally Posted by poostain (Post 1061470)

Alright you super fantastic sexy scope gurus.

I am stuck on question 13 "the list" please break down how you numbered and why PLEASE!

Here is the list and it is not in a priority order, just as it was listed in the survey

Amount of flying done by DCI carriers (e.g. Compass, Comair, etc.)

Successorship/Merger with another carrier

Fragmentation/Transfer of Assets

Change of Control

Cabotage

Alter Ego

Subcontracting

Bankruptcy 1113 Protection

Foreign Ownership

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1061465)

Sailing,

This is a disturbing post. If this is the reality of the situation, why even bother with surveys, openers, or negotiations at all? If this is how it is, it seems we are lucky just to even have the company talk to us. You make it seem like we have to beg the company to have discussions and if we ask for too much, they will take that privilege away. Really? How do you know? I thought this was a new Delta management team. :confused:

Look. I like Delta. I want Delta to succeed. I want Delta to make a lot of money. I want Delta to be the airline of choice for every passenger in the world. I think, because we are all proud individuals, we all want to work for the best airline in the world.

But, come on -- It has got to be a two way street. Delta has got to want its pilots to succeed. Not, just at getting airplanes from point A to B, but outside of work, too. They have got to know that employing some of the most conscientious, professional, type A, results oriented, pilots in the industry should and does come at a cost. They have got to know that the more pilots they have that have side businesses and second careers, and aspirations to work somewhere else, only hurts them. They have got to know that to get to be the airline of choice for every passenger in the world, they have got to be the airline of choice for every pilot in the world. Especially, since they rely so heavily on pilots to make the operation go.

The suggestion that if we merely ask for "the huge opener" it will result in the company walking away from negotiations for 14 months, indicates that you think the company doesn't respect us -- that you think the company will choose to punish us in this way as if we are a bunch of 3 year olds. It even suggests that you believe the company will behave in a childish fashion and take their ball and go home, if they don't like what they hear, which I don't believe. But, if this is the case, let the opener at least reveal that we are self-respecting adults. If the company wants to play games, we will at least know what we are dealing with from the beginning, instead of the end.

Seriously, in my opinion, I would think the company would have less respect for us if we don't ask for the huge opener. What type of person doesn't ask to be paid the same as his highest peer is paid? What type of person is threatened or intimidated to even ask?

To be honest with you, I don't think the opener has anything to do with being happy or unhappy. I don't even think it as to do with what the rational or irrational pilot thinks, either. This opener has everything to do with respect.

I think we should respect ourselves enough to ask for what we want -- for what we see our highest peers making, plus some-- then have the confidence that the company will respect us enough to go from there.



New K Now
(Sorry for the length.)

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1061577)

Has anybody else stopped and wondered about the impact that social media might have on the contract process? I mean, this is the first major PWA negotiation in the world of social media. I think it might make a difference in consolidating contract expectations and rallying the troops to mutual consensus. I bet management is aware of that as well.

Just a thought. Also, any APC buds going to laying over in Minny this weekend? I have two long layovers there.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1061579)

You know, it's going to be very interesting to see what happens.

Such as requesting the proverbial tar and feather of anyone who thinks this is cool:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1061319)

We have tried the huge opener at Delta. In the end we got a lower rate then could have been achieved with a more reasonable opener and lost half the 16 aircraft on order.
The problem with a huge opener is what do you do when the company says the following on 1 Apr.
Company:Thank you for your opener. We will get back to you with a response in June.
DALPA: June? That is not acceptable. Its almost 2 months away. We want to talk sooner.
Company: You must have misunderstood us. We meant June of 2014!
Goodbye.

There are two things in a contract negotiation that have to always be considered. What you want and what is achievable. The two are almost never the same. The majority of pilots are rational enough to understand that
concept. The rest will simply always be unhappy and looking for someone or something to blame.

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1061587)

You don't have to aim so high that you hit the Moon, but you don't go in aiming lower to avoid conflict. Sounds a lot like some LEC people up North.