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Old 10-02-2011 | 09:08 AM
  #77041  
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Originally Posted by Xray678
pilots don't show up at LEC meetings because it has been made clear to them the union doesn't care what they think. Get a new union in and I will volunteer.

I see that as eyewash. If you do not like the people representing you, recall them. ATN pilots how shown how easy it is. ALPA will be the one getting this contract, so it is important you have people in there you can rely upon.
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:12 AM
  #77042  
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Originally Posted by Xray678
pilots don't show up at LEC meetings because it has been made clear to them the union doesn't care what they think. Get a new union in and I will volunteer.
Somehow I doubt that - you'll probably quickly join the ranks of those who say DPA is not representing your interests

According to the communications committee page, 19 LEC originated resolutions were acted on at the last MEC meeting. Sounds like they are listening and acting.

Perhaps you should read what the MEC puts out instead of basing your views on here and the WB's
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:20 AM
  #77043  
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Originally Posted by Fly4hire
Somehow I doubt that - you'll probably quickly join the ranks of those who say DPA is not representing your interests

According to the communications committee page, 19 LEC originated resolutions were acted on at the last MEC meeting. Sounds like they are listening and acting.

Perhaps you should read what the MEC puts out instead of basing your views on here and the WB's
+1

Making the Communications Committee publish the results of every Resolution is great. Now if we could just get them to e-mail all of that data.
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:25 AM
  #77044  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
+1

Making the Communications Committee publish the results of every Resolution is great. Now if we could just get them to e-mail all of that data.
Actually I think they just did it because it was the right thing to do
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:34 AM
  #77045  
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Originally Posted by Fly4hire
Actually I think they just did it because it was the right thing to do

Even better. As we saw on here last night, guys cannot seem to find things, like this page for example. It is not hard, but in reality that data should just be pushed to the pilots. Same for FPL data, etc.

I also would like to see a data file with all of the ALPA volunteers contact info available for download, and updated twice a year. It should be a file that can auto load in to Outlook and a smart phone. It can be just that easy. I also would like to see a calendar pushed the pilots at least monthly of all DALPA MEC and LEC ongoings so they could upload it the same way.
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:38 AM
  #77046  
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Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
Yup, tear down your house and build a new one to fix a leaky basement.
It's been leaking for decades. So yes, tear it down.

Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
I liked the analogy from while back that ALPA may be a C student but DPA is the kids who cut class, were behind the gym smoking a joint and *****ing about the teacher.
this is a nonsensical analogy made up to say DPA is nothing more than teenagers who smoke pot. Its just meant to be inflammatory, it means nothing.

Want a better analogy? Lets see, the DPA is like a new union created, growing and supported because nobody has faith in their entrenched union where they cannot vote for effective change on a regular basis nor vote for those who are most in charge and who represents both mainline Delta pilots but also those at ASA, Comair, Compass*, pinnacle, Mesaba and Alaska.

Oh yeah, make it more of an analogy... the DPA is like a bunch of pilots firing their rich lawyer and ALPA is their lawyer telling them the pilots they're not in charge.
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:45 AM
  #77047  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
It's been leaking for decades. So yes, tear it down.



this is a nonsensical analogy made up to say DPA is nothing more than teenagers who smoke pot. Its just meant to be inflammatory, it means nothing.

Want a better analogy? Lets see, the DPA is like a new union created, growing and supported because nobody has faith in their entrenched union where they cannot vote for effective change on a regular basis nor vote for those who are most in charge and who represents both mainline Delta pilots but also those at ASA, Comair, Compass*, pinnacle, Mesaba and Alaska.

Oh yeah, make it more of an analogy... the DPA is like a bunch of pilots firing their rich lawyer and ALPA is their lawyer telling them the pilots they're not in charge.
That is overly simplistic and idealistic. The reality is a lot more pragmatic.
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:52 AM
  #77048  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Carl, it is a very insightful piece from S/T Massey but as he states ALPA is still the best way to go. Do not omit that.
Whether he truly believes ALPA is the way to go or not is immaterial. The actual facts of the article is all that matters. The piece clearly laid out (IMO) how broken the MEC is. The fact that the MEC is trying to close local offices and add unelected power brokers just further shows the MEC bureaucracy's desire to make the LEC reps even more irrelevant than they already are.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot
What he is getting at is that there are issues within the current structure that need fixing.
That is clear to everyone, but the MEC bureaucracy disagrees with you. They're happy with things just as they are and could care less what you or your rep thinks.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot
IMO, the only way that we will get the contract we want is for line pilot to start holding their reps accountable and recall them if they are not voting a certain way on resolutions or elections etc.
As has been said here many times, recalling reps accomplishes nothing. That is because the MEC bureaucracy and national bureaucracy is permanent, you and your reps are not. Your opinion to them is meaningless unless you're telling them how much you agree with them.

Carl
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:54 AM
  #77049  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
It's been leaking for decades. So yes, tear it down.



this is a nonsensical analogy made up to say DPA is nothing more than teenagers who smoke pot. Its just meant to be inflammatory, it means nothing.

Want a better analogy? Lets see, the DPA is like a new union created, growing and supported because nobody has faith in their entrenched union where they cannot vote for effective change on a regular basis nor vote for those who are most in charge and who represents both mainline Delta pilots but also those at ASA, Comair, Compass*, pinnacle, Mesaba and Alaska.

Oh yeah, make it more of an analogy... the DPA is like a bunch of pilots firing their rich lawyer and ALPA is their lawyer telling them the pilots they're not in charge.
FTB,

How do you expect anyone to have any faith in DPA's ability to do anything if they haven't even tried to work within the system to change their ALPA?

I don't buy the it's unfixable crap. 3500+ pilots and you can't even write a resolution or recall a rep whose position you don't like?

Hint - there is a lot more to running a union than licking a stamp, hitting enter, and saying you've done your part.

In the vacuum of pilot apathy work still needs to get done, and if their is not adequate representative data decisions still have to get made with the best extrapolation available.

Unfortunately some have used this apathy as a pretext for dismissing what input there is as not representative. They need to go back to the line. The Yang of that is DPA is just another form of pilot apathy
Old 10-02-2011 | 09:55 AM
  #77050  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Does that mean that you are going to go to a LEC meeting and hold your reps accountable, and if necessary recall them?
That accomplishes nothing. What really needs to happen is us pilots doing a better job of electing the MEC chairman and his bureaucrats.

Oh wait...

Carl
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