Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063479)

Good question. I believe it is a people issue not a structure issue.

But wait a minute... don't our people elect THOSE people? (With little if any input from us I might add)

The recall of a rep is trivially easy.

I know a dozen fence sitters to are holding tight to see if the DPA can really deliver on anything. If the DPA wants to show it can be effective, what better way than rick-rolling a LEC or two?

Pull a rep or two, and I guarantee that the others will see the writing on the wall.

Nu

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063486)

Good sound bite, but the Ford-Cooksey settlement is meet and confer, nothing more. We can and will do what we want. You also know that.

Legal definition of "meet and confer" n.

a requirement of courts that before certain types of motions and/or petitions will be heard by the judge, the lawyers (and sometimes their clients) must "meet and confer" to try to resolve the matter or at least determine the points of conflict. This has the beneficial effect of resolving many matters, reducing the time for arguments, and making the lawyers and clients face up to the realities of their positions. On the other hand, it also can be a total waste of time for the parties and their attorneys. The meet and confer rule is particularly common (and useful) in domestic relations disputes over temporary support, custody, visitation and such issues which are freighted with emotion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063486)

Dude, it is simple math. You are a business man, and I am sure that you pay retainers et al, of services you may need. It is a lot cheaper to bundle those service or bring them in house where possible.

Not if the service is inferior/ineffective and/or conflicted with your objectives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063486)

Lets look at the decision the TWA MEC made, and how the legal advice was crafted to meet that choice.

You had an airline on the verge of CH7 that was bought by AMR. Fact, and that reality came in to play. There are limits to everything. Is ALPA without fault? Not on your life. I too have issues with a lot of things, but the reality is that all of them can be fixed if people are willing. To date they are not. DPA will have issues, and one or two contracts down the road, people are going to want to give them the boot for the same reasons people are listing against ALPA today. DPA's response will be to get involved.

The root of all that is unjust and evil is apathy of the group.

I like the way you changed the subject from answering the assertion about TWA to pontificating about your opinion of DPA. :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1063490)

You're just mad because we DPA guys aren't walking into your obvious time wasting trap.

Time wasting trap. LEC resolutions are ignored by the permanent MEC bureaucracy. Recalling reps is meaningless.

Yes. Ignoring the will of the pilots and their reps is hard work.

Carl

Frankly Carl, the biggest power with regard to these resolutions, is how the makeup of the drafting committees is done, and how these resolutions are assigned to each committee. I suspect that a resolution could very easily pass or fail depending on the makeup of a given committee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1063445)

So, here's what I don't understand. You guys are saying that ALPA as an organization is irreparable. Meaning, it's not a people problem. Are you sure? Let's say Carl was MEC Chairman. You don't think things would be different?

Why not?

Sad truth is that Ford-Cooksey is just one example of how ALPA is hopeless as an organization. In their attempt to represent all pilots, this lawsuit's aftermath puts obstacles in the way of any local union trying to do what they think is best for them regarding scope.

Once that strategy was pursued (long before Moak), ALPA began it's own journey toward an ineffective and conflicted organization. Not even ole Carl could change that. A new union is absolutely required.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 1063494)

I don't know. One of the hinge point with the DPA is that it's futile to try and plug into the Borg and try and effect change. You will be assimilated or washed out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063455)

BS. They will not get 50% of the pilots much a less a vote before we are in the middle of exchanging proposals. ALPA will not get voted off unless it is a knee jerk reaction to a horrible contract.

BS. Your opinion only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063455)

The irony is that the lack of unity that DPA is fanning the flames of will be equally if not more responsible for it.

Shameful. Changing unions does not equal disunity. Unless you and some other disgruntled DALPA thugs intend on scuttling our new union because you're a sore loser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063455)

I know that if I were in management, I would be licking my chops at all of the ways this group could be divided in to little fiefdoms and picked off.

Instead, management gets their chops licked for them by the lap dogs at DALPA who want management to continue paying those 92 hour FPL months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063455)

DPA says it wants what is best for DAL pilots. I bet you that well over 85% of this group will tell you that what is best for them is a great contract. Pushing this drive though section six will result in less for everyone, and that is not what is best for this group.

BS. Your opinion only.

Carl

I think the Steelers are gonna lose, but Polamalu is really really fun to watch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1063498)

Ok. I'm going to research Ford-Cooksey. Thanks for the lead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063457)

Oh, that's it. Gawd. No actually I would support them if I knew they would fix everything,

Acl65pilot translation: Since no organization can fix everything, I'll never support DPA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063457)

The change of two or three reps, tops, changes this whole MEC completely.

No it doesn't. I don't know if you're just naive or purposefully trying to give false hope to people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063457)

How about you right a resolution for you LEC 20 meeting, and then see if it can pass at the Nov MEC meeting. Make sure that your LEC 20 guys on the drafting committee that deal with this resolution, record the vote as part of the resolution.

That's it! A resolution! Certainly the MEC couldn't ignore that...could they? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063457)

It is not because ALPA suck. It is because everyone is to darn lazy to give a little of their time and force a few issues.

We wonder why we are where we are.

Despite your appallingly low opinion of this pilot group, laziness plays no part at all. If you weren't so blind, you could see it.

Carl