Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1064578)

But the same work to get more money IS. I guess the question is what form the mo money/mo time off compromise needs to take in order to satisfy the most voters. I think that more guys would rather work the same number of days for a big raise rather than fewer days for a moderate raise. But that's JMHO.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1064582)

There are other ways they can 'hide' a pay raise from the "Non-Contract Employees", such as a 6hr. Duty Period Minimum (I would prefer 8) and same for a day of Vacation.

WHY do we only get 3hr.s per day for Vacation when we have a 5:15 DPM anyway??

Also, -everything- flown over 80 is at 1.5x pay, not just Greenslips (which would still be at 2x pay).

Now, for the pay rates themselves? Peg our smallest airframe to SWA + 3%, then go up from there.

And YES, the Whale should pay -quite a bit more- than the 777!

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1064571)

For the day, thus far, the bear fund is down 5% which is worse than the losses taken yesterday on long positions. I'm thinking sell into strength this fall (if your bereft of life mouser bounces)

Frankly, I do not understand the market's herd mentality. If the market were a good determinant of value, we would not see such wild, fast, swings. Smart people should be able to see past the chaff and in this case, I think they are missing the GOOD performance of individual companies. Durable goods, automobiles, inventory reports, all seem to indicate we should have a fourth quarter mini bull, at least as far as the equities I follow.

For retirement funds, why not utilities which pay a descent yield? (DUK has been a favorite) Even if you get clobbered on asset price, the dividend evens things out nicely if you reinvest.

The best investments I've made have been things I can touch and hammer a nail into. Even though my local market is depressed, I've done well, solid 10% return on invested funds to possibly as well as 70% (still got a couple of sold homes not yet closed) this year. The worst I've done is broken even. The only real skills required are to know how to work with people and fix roof leaks (seems every foreclosure has at least two).

Scambo, that's my counter trend bull market rebuttal. But, I'm 50% in cash due to the potential that whatever takes out my investments might also harm Delta enough to result in a furlough.

I've not taken an active enough role managing my retirement and the "professionals" have lost me in excess of $150,000 since going to cash just isn't one of the moves that make them any money.

Until Delta gets is debt down, I'm figuring the airline has a 50/50 chance of flying for as many years as I plan to.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1064612)

Timbo;

Did you read my survey?

Holy cow!

except everything over 75 is 1.5 in scambo-land

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1064627)

That just proves great minds think alike! ;)

A few more things came to mind:

CQ? (the home school part) 6 hours. (it takes me 8 at home!)

Sim CQ? 6 hours.

It's a 6hr. period, why are we only paid 3:15?

Initial training? 80hrs. per month, 15 days max per month. (ie. they can't put you in the school house/sim for more than 15 days/mo, and they must pay you 80 or a pro-rated amount for a shorter month)

Medical? Zero cost, Zero deductibles.

Retirement? Fill up our 401K's to the maximum extent the law allows every year, plus some extra for mom and the kids.

There are lots of ways we can say "FUPM" without having to tell Wall Street, Uncle Sam and the Non-Contract people we got a 70% raise. And a lot of the -other- stuff is tax free (for now!) vs. a huge pay rate raise, which Uncle will clip 35% right off the top.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1064627)

That just proves great minds think alike! ;)

A few more things came to mind:

CQ? (the home school part) 6 hours. (it takes me 8 at home!)

Sim CQ? 6 hours.

It's a 6hr. period, why are we only paid 3:15?

Initial training? 80hrs. per month, 15 days max per month. (ie. they can't put you in the school house/sim for more than 15 days/mo, and they must pay you 80 or a pro-rated amount for a shorter month)

Medical? Zero cost, Zero deductibles.

Retirement? Fill up our 401K's to the maximum extent the law allows every year, plus some extra for mom and the kids.

There are lots of ways we can say "FUPM" without having to tell Wall Street, Uncle Sam and the Non-Contract people we got a 70% raise. And a lot of the -other- stuff is tax free (for now!) vs. a huge pay rate raise, which Uncle will clip 35% right off the top.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063465)

That is the problem. It has been leaking because too many pilots have been spending their time resting on the work of past generations, not because if cannot get fixed. It may take more work that it would have taken a few years ago, but that is the cost of going to the Lake versus doing your part. I can also guarantee you that fixing the "leak" is a hell of a lot cheaper than tearing down the house, getting new permits, inspections, a builder you can trust, and rebuilding it. No one ever appreciates the cost and headache of new construction until after they have lived it. It is also true that once the last nail is put in and you get a OC, there is invariably something that is not perfect and makes you desire to build a new house again. It is plain moronic.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1064627)

That just proves great minds think alike! ;)

A few more things came to mind:

CQ? (the home school part) 6 hours. (it takes me 8 at home!)

Sim CQ? 6 hours.

It's a 6hr. period, why are we only paid 3:15?

Initial training? 80hrs. per month, 15 days max per month. (ie. they can't put you in the school house/sim for more than 15 days/mo, and they must pay you 80 or a pro-rated amount for a shorter month)

Medical? Zero cost, Zero deductibles.

Retirement? Fill up our 401K's to the maximum extent the law allows every year, plus some extra for mom and the kids.

There are lots of ways we can say "FUPM" without having to tell Wall Street, Uncle Sam and the Non-Contract people we got a 70% raise. And a lot of the -other- stuff is tax free (for now!) vs. a huge pay rate raise, which Uncle will clip 35% right off the top.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1064631)

Oct. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Airline profits forecast to total $28 billion in the three years through 2012 may be unsustainable as over-capacity and looming regulatory costs weigh on margins, the head of the IATA industry association said.

Airlines will generate net income equal to 0.8 percent of revenue next year, a margin that may shrink further if economic growth slows to less than 2.4 percent, Tony Tyler, chief executive officer of the International Air Transport Association since July 1, said in an interview in London.

Airlines Mired in Crisis' as Margins Shrink, IATA CEO Says - BusinessWeek