Even the girls are into brown!

http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/attach...ls_uniform.jpg

It has nothing to do with trusting or distrusting ALPA. It has to do with distrusting management. The fact that you and union insiders like slowplay don't understand how you get used as mouthpieces for management is troubling.

I don't need to call past or present reps to understand how wrong your statements are. When our interests align with management, all the information should be given out to the pilots so that we can all decide if our interests really align. Thus no NDA is needed. If our interests don't align, probabilities are high that management will lie to our leaders in order to gain advantage. Since that info is a lie, we again don't need an NDA because we have no need to see lies...secretly or publicly.

We probably can't have a logical discussion with you because you use terms like "grassy knolls." I see that kind of BS with a lot of DALPA communications lately - including adding Dilbert cartoons referencing rumors and name calling DPA supporters. This is generally what is done by people who have a **** poor record and no ability to persuade people any other way. It can be a useful tactic, because nobody likes to be thought of as crazy or a flat earther. But I think most people see through it and see how weak the position of the "grassy knoll" guy really is.

Carl

Sorry for missing it earlier johnso29. Yes there have been. At NWA we negotiated a snapback after our givebacks in the 90's. When the time came for our wages to snap back, the company denied that the snapback really meant that wages should snap back, so we took them to court and won. 3 or 4% snapbacks if my memory serves.

Carl

Indeed!

Carl

Stop being a dullard and create an avatar that doesn't rip-off one of our other respected members.

Carl

All good points, but the biggest problem with it is the wedge it drives between union leaders and union members. Anytime a union leader knows something that they can't disclose to the members, it divides us. And if what they "know" is a purposeful lie by management, it's all the more damaging to us.

Carl

Gloopy,

I'm not naive enough to think that management wouldn't squeal to the other groups if it's in their best interests. Rather, I was suggesting a face saving maneuver where they can have some plausible deniabilty with the other groups.

The big point that I think we're both making is there are more ways to improve our W-2 without a percentage increase in section three. We can make big gains in work rules, training and vacation pay. Heck even in benefits we can gain. Of course if we look at the bankruptcy contracts versus C2K we lost more than just pay rates, touching trips and other goodies went bye bye.

Those cargo guys get everything - Money! Chicks! Widebodies (planes, not chicks),

^^^^^^ Worth repeating

I think you are absolutely right. You can make more compensation, but it doesnt all have to show up as W2-able.

I would also like to share an opposing viewpoint for the folks that think it is cool to work 15+ days per month. Half of your life away from your family. When you are junior in category, that is your free days when your family isnt free. There are categories that have a lot of 15 day months or more...for lineholders...a sure sign we need a higher minimum day. I've got no problem working hard for a living, but I dont live to work and I certainly dont appreciate pointless wasted time away from home.

I am a big fan of 401k to the 415C limit funded by the company. Profit sharing should be mad money, not an after tax pad to retirement.

Management will "squeal" to the other groups, no matter what, when we are in section 6 negotiations.

I agree with all of your work rule enhancements.