Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1064166)

Shiz, ten and dragon, what were these guys reasonings?

Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL (Post 1064175)

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1063798)

Is it just me, or, does all this talk of replacing our bargaining agent during Section 6 just seem a little dumb?

Most talk about replacing ALPA if the opener is unsatisfactory. How could you pick a worse time to start a representational battle? Regardless of your reasoning, management (and the NMB) will take a "wait and see" position. Nobody will give anything if they are not sure they are negotiating with the correct representative. It will be like my first attempts at doing business in Latin America. "Gringo, you sign contract with wrong person, he no have authority." In effect, we as a pilot group will have created the form of democracy being tried in Afghanistan.

Management absolutely will not "raise the floor" for the next representative to start with. We could demand 125% ... ... ... ... The result will be nothing will happen. We sure wont be released to strike by the NMB. So what's our next move?

The DPA needs to make a choice. Option 1 was to hold the vote last spring ... but they were unable to get the cards. Option 2 is to wait until AFTER Section 6 to avoid harming our Contract. By making our Bargaining Agent appear illegitimate they can prevent progress at the table.

The only significant leverage we have is getting released to strike. Every contract negotiation ends with a deal, or a strike. Getting the release to engage in self help is highly political. Just like management, the politicians aren't going to give ALPA or DPA any credibility if they are unsure who the bargaining agent will be.

Worst case, the DPA wins a vote, then realizes they have the exact same issues as ALPA had, but with no relationship with management or the NMB.

Vinegar and Bluster used to work in the union business, that changed in 1936.

Originally Posted by Superdad (Post 1064189)

Anybody else heard the rumor that the company approached ALPA offering us a 17% pay raise to put off negotiations for a few more years?

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1063800)

Option 3 is where all the DPA guys (who are dues paying DALPA members) show up at their LEC meetings and DEMAND the changes they seek, through the process already in place.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1063800)

Why they want to reinvent the wheel is beyond me,

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1063800)

if they put half the effort into working within the system already in place that they are putting into replacing the system, well, it would work out much better for them, and quicker.

Originally Posted by hoserpilot (Post 1064194)

All you Debbie Downers need a boost so here it goes.....

Almost every single 88 Captain I fly with will accept nothing less than SWA pay for the 88. The rest of the pay rates get adjusted UP from there. They are unanimously against further outsourcing on the top and bottom end. Many had previously been furloughed, or were close to it. Most have kids in college or about to enter. 15-20 years seniority and pi$$ed off is how I'd describe them.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1063806)

Timbo,

Your option 3 is by far the best. TIm Caplinger is a good speaker and would make a strong candidate if he chose to run. Being a Status Rep in the Delta MEC would give him a valuable education.

But that's not his point. He'll tell you he was angered by the NWA ALPA's handling of "his" grievance. IMHO, this is as much a vendetta as anything else. He's taken a falsehood, which was spread to increase ... ahem "unity" by unifying Delta pilots against ASA and Comair and expanded that to justify an entirely different representational entity.

Some of Tim's ideas are good and could be used.

The problem for DPA is, and will be (they can't out run it):
(1) The "conflict of interest" has ALWAYS been decided in favor of mainline and has never hampered our bargaining
(2) What has harmed our union is a lack of unity ... pilots have been unwilling to stand and help pilots ... the DPA has not embraced "unity" and really does not seem to understand the concept, at least not as well as ALPA's very minimal understanding of the concept.

Removal of a non existent conflict will reveal no improvement in our bargaining position. ... then pilots will be dissatisfied because CHANGE made things worse. Some will want to return to ALPA, but we will have probably so harmed ALPA in the process of the representational flight that they are less appealing an option than we have now. So then what?

The way forward (we all know this) is to get behind our elected Representatives. Show up, volunteer and talk positively about OUR union. For most of us, we are at our #1 airline choice. We are getting paid at the top of our peer group (not as good as some, but better than most). Could things be better, heck yeah, but lets be smart about how we get there.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1063862)

I have been saying this for so long it is not even funny. I wish they did just that.