I heard 25% for a scope trade...

... and the rumor turned out to be complete garbage.

We are not a stage of negotiations where the horse trading begins. No where close, yet (unless we're talking about a LOA that includes something else)

It was a 6% raise for scope trade, right?

The richest man I ever worked for was worth about 1/2 a billion. I learned one thing, everything is for sale.

Is scope for sale? Absolutely.

I'd entertain the idea... for $10,000,000 upfront per pilot and a no furlough clause.

It's a simple $100B buyout of the pilots.

FTB,

THe Captain that told me that was very nice. I have a feeling human nature makes us TIMID for negotiating or wanting more because of the illusion of losing EVERYTHING.

THis negative Psychological effect needs to be broken by positive leadership. We pilots have gone thru so much loss and anguish that we are succumbing to scare tactics and illusions that the past will reappear.

I think FEAR is the main motive. I think ALPA needs to know and promote that we are worth MUCH MORE than mgt/koolaidpilots think we are.

GODSPEED on our quest (hopefully a diplomatic one) to regain what is rightfully ours. We will be the best airline out there no matter what. Our professionalism as pilots will give Delta an edge! I hope our UNION believes in our worth and educates the few that think we are not worth what we are in demand for.

TEN

Forgot,

It depends on what you believe in and what you love.

Our profession hinges on one thing, unity. Without unity you are not "worth" half of what you are paid now. The example of Wilbur and Orvil having to flip a coin still stands today. You can be replaced, quickly.

You don't own unity and you can not sell it. If together we sell unity no one will honor what we are owed.

Truly we stand on the shoulders of giants who wrestled control of staffing airplanes away from managers who cared nothing about safety, experience or longevity.

Maybe. If ALPA put out a real contract comparison with W2/TAFB with SWA, FDX, AF, etc on the list it would fail 99 to 1. And vacation. And work rules. I think many pilots (especially the older ones) do not surf the interwebz, don't talk in the crew room, and rely 100% on union materials for their "facts".

I am not sure if it is intentional or not, but information is being metered, and formatted in a way that to me, is very deceiving.

+1..

I will take a $1,000,000 signing bonus for a 5 year extension on our contract. Lump sum:D

TEN

That is 100% correct. But those giants of the past were represented by a union that were the biggest bunch of unified ball breakers you've ever seen. Today's ALPA definition of unity is unintelligible. Today's ALPA meets with management after having signed non-disclosure agreements, then meet later at an NBA game. Quite a difference.

Carl

Do any of you realize exactly how much we are worth?

I tell you in case you don't know; we are worth exactly as much as we can negotiate ourself to be worth, not a penny more or less.

Our present bargening representation has failed over and over again, and history is repeating itself again. ALPA is in a flat spin without any chance of a recovery. You may not see this now because your father or uncle or whatever worked so hard for ALPA and what they did achieve years ago. It is time to get rid of the bureaucracy of incompetent representation that ALPA has grown to be, and let some new blood in. It is time for Delta pilots to decide what Delta pilots want, not some FPL paid bureaucrat that doesn't really care about anything but his own political latter (MEC's). Personally I think that there is no such thing as a bad time to replace our current bureaucracy, also known as our so called union. Let it be December 31st, 2012, it is still a good time...

Rant over, just my $ 0.02 worth for tonight...

I completely agree. And I think it is intentional. I think the predominant view of our MEC, especially the leadership, is that the massive BK concessions are a permanent reset of the value of our profession and that we can only expect traditional, modest improvements from this new baseline going forward. I think most of what you see coming from this MEC is designed to bring line pilots around to this way of thinking... i.e. lower expectations so as not to disappoint them.