Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1071451)

I'd be willing to bet that the VAST majority of Delta pilots would be thrilled with the SWAPA + 5% proposal because it would be very close to C2K restoration in many ways...if not every way.



That's because I consider this time especially different in our history in that time is of the essence. The company has shown no interest whatsoever in increasing our compensation prior to contract amendability, despite the fact that we gave up so much of our pay prior to our contract's amendability. Management simply feels entitled to our pay to use as they wish. It's theirs...not ours.

Given this, I propose a really short negotiations whereby we just get to the end game. Our opening position is also our closing position. Not because we are stubborn or unwilling to negotiate in good faith, but because time is of the essence. The NMB would understand and be quite sympathetic in my opinion given what we've "given."



To the Delta pilots that would be unhappy with SWAPA + 5% as our contract, I would say...vote NO. But my bet is that a VAST majority of Delta pilots would vote YES. I know I would. That SWAPA scope would do it for me alone...but that's just me.

Carl

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1071472)

I hope you mean it, but it was the only thing you homed in on. Hence the question.

I mean it. I'm not defensive about it at all. If the time comes, I expect overwhelming support and a determined MEC and pilot group with the resources, experience and motivation to be successful.

I've found it very interesting lately if you mention strike people scatter. I don't say it lightly. I use it about as lightly as I'd use the word scab. It's just interesting.

I haven't seen folks scatter, but if you have, it's probably because a consensus that this is the right course of action has not been reached yet.

I thought it was pretty spot on. How do you get the contract done asap? You capitulate. How can you argue against that?

I didn't ask about getting a contract done ASAP, anyone can do that. I asked how do we get to the point where we can exert true leverage if the need comes. The APA has wanted to do it for some time, but they haven't been able to. They've shot themselves in the foot and stood in the way of their own negotiations with a failed strategy.

You low ball your opener, see where they are, hope for something in the middle and move to where they were.

See above.

Example, management opens with a 5% increase, we say 10%, they say 5%, we say 7.5%, they say 2.5%, we say 5%, they agree, we got them to move 100%

See above

How can you move things faster? For one refuse binding arbitration and go to the media from day one. Be reasonable, as in demand wages negotiated 11 years ago be restored and settle at the least what other airlines, who like us are not struggling, pay.


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As to APA vs AMR, the APA is now saying they're making great progress:



So I guess that's probably because they dropped ALPA in August?

They resigned with ALPA after their President called several ALPA MEC Chairman asking that they support APA's request to renew the ALPA service agreement. ALPA has generously given them a second chance.;)


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Maybe that's what we can do different. ;)


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Apologize for the delay but family time. So I'll check back again around 11. But I really want to know why isn't the fastest way capitulation? After all isn't Section 6 > Direct Negotiations > Agreement the fastest way?

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1071483)

Not showing a summary of our opener is like showing our cards in poker? That is bullcrap and an invalid comparison.

Showing the contract survey results would certainly be... but we deserve to know what ALPA is asking on our behalf.

As usual, I am dissapointed but not surprised.

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1071542)

I have heard that management believes round 2 of consolidation is on the way, and they do NOT want to be negotiating anything during that tome period, hence the rumor about 25% raise with a 2 year contract extension. Knowing that is possible, you would think DALPA would consider that LEVERAGE, right? Or, could DALPA maybe know the target, and maybe they aren't current ALPA members, which could mean more money via dues for them? All valid questions.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1071544)

On the contract opener being shared.

Question: Several first officers have told me that they will sign up for DPA if they believe our contract survey to be weak or ALPA's opener with Delta to be too low. Are we going to know what we are asking for in our opening exchange with management or the results of the contract survey?

Answer: 8-1-11. The contract survey will be just that, a survey. Every pilot should complete it. We need 100% participation in order for the MEC to move forward with what the pilots want. Don't expect our contract survey or opener to be published until the opener has been exchanged. It is not good negotiating strategy to tell the other party what you intend to open with.

Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 1071539)

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1071547)

I see that as significant leverage, and all of the reps that I have talked to about this subject do as well.

I have never once heard what ALPA will get in dues as part of a discussion on a restorative extension or a TA in full section 6.

I can tell you that 25% sounds like a decent start, but in reality a lot else needs to be fixed, like work rules, reserve rules, sick bank, vacation min day, etc. If they can get those have the rates above LUV's and then have teeth in the extension on starting active negotiations 12 months from the amendable date, mediation the day that it is amendable, and COLA raises every six months plus an agreement to full retro when the deal is signed, I would look at the details and debate if it was worth it. A extension with money alone will probably not do it for this group unless it was over 45%. (C2K 2004 rates)