At least he's come out with the truth in the following sentence from his letter (emphasis mine):

"The Negotiating Committee will provide the MEC with a detailed statistical analysis of the results of the Contract Survey to guide our opening proposal. No, the line pilots will not be receiving a summary of our opening PWA proposal. This would be like betting in a game of poker with your hand exposed."

I never remember a single Section 6 at NWA where we did not receive a summary of our opening position. Now we will get nothing. No summary of the survey results, and no summary of our opener when Section 6 begins.

I've said this before and it obviously bears repeating now. If DALPA is our bargaining agent when Section 6 begins - we lose. Here's why: We will know nothing of our position in our own contract until the TA comes out for a vote. If the opener was extremely weak and something the majority of us would never have wanted, there's no way we'll get anything better than that opener. Even if we voted in the DPA after the TA came out, the NMB would never allow us to re-open our position based on our new union. Our best case scenario would be to gain our opening position...a position that we won't get to know.

If we as pilots say we are just fine with being given no information on our own survey, and no information on our own opening position - we will have shown management that we are pretty much fine with anything. And sadly, we will have deserved everything that management/DALPA "gets" for us.

Carl

I'd be willing to bet that the VAST majority of Delta pilots would be thrilled with the SWAPA + 5% proposal because it would be very close to C2K restoration in many ways...if not every way.

That's because I consider this time especially different in our history in that time is of the essence. The company has shown no interest whatsoever in increasing our compensation prior to contract amendability, despite the fact that we gave up so much of our pay prior to our contract's amendability. Management simply feels entitled to our pay to use as they wish. It's theirs...not ours.

Given this, I propose a really short negotiations whereby we just get to the end game. Our opening position is also our closing position. Not because we are stubborn or unwilling to negotiate in good faith, but because time is of the essence. The NMB would understand and be quite sympathetic in my opinion given what we've "given."

To the Delta pilots that would be unhappy with SWAPA + 5% as our contract, I would say...vote NO. But my bet is that a VAST majority of Delta pilots would vote YES. I know I would. That SWAPA scope would do it for me alone...but that's just me.

Carl

Carl,

I kinda like your proposal about slapping down the SWA contract plus 5% etc. But I can see problems associated with it that would take more negotiation. As an example sick leave. I don't know what SWA's sick leave program is like but if it's an hourly accrual, there would have to be some grandfathering of hours maybe based on years of service. As you mentioned, scope (not just the 50 seaters) would also have to be modified with JV language etc. If this could be done I'd more than likely go for it.

Denny

I hope you mean it, but it was the only thing you homed in on. Hence the question.

I've found it very interesting lately if you mention strike people scatter. I don't say it lightly. I use it about as lightly as I'd use the word scab. It's just interesting.

I thought it was pretty spot on. How do you get the contract done asap? You capitulate. How can you argue against that?

You low ball your opener, see where they are, hope for something in the middle and move to where they were.

Example, management opens with a 5% increase, we say 10%, they say 5%, we say 7.5%, they say 2.5%, we say 5%, they agree, we got them to move 100%.

How can you move things faster? For one refuse binding arbitration and go to the media from day one. Be reasonable, as in demand wages negotiated 11 years ago be restored and settle at the least what other airlines, who like us are not struggling, pay.


-------------
As to APA vs AMR, the APA is now saying they're making great progress:

Maybe that's what we can do different. ;)


-----------------
Apologize for the delay but family time. So I'll check back again around 11. But I really want to know why isn't the fastest way capitulation? After all isn't Section 6 > Direct Negotiations > Agreement the fastest way?

Two different things going on at different times around here, one is restoration + and the other is SWA +. I agree with you Carl, most will happily settle with SWA+. They may even go below it but maybe not a lot.

The reason many demand restoration is they want restoration but will settle for SWA+. If we start out at SWA+ we will in most of us minds end up below it or you got extremely lucky with the NMB.

If good faith = movement, you're going to have to move in the company's direction and if they start low and that's seen as good faith then I could imagine we'll have to come off a lot from our position to have something hammered out before we stretch this out to Reroute's 2018 timeline.

Not showing a summary of our opener is like showing our cards in poker? That is bullcrap and an invalid comparison.

Showing the contract survey results would certainly be... but we deserve to know what ALPA is asking on our behalf.

As usual, I am dissapointed but not surprised.

It is indeed total bullcrap. I've never NOT seen our opening position in section 6. The ridiculous comparison to poker is just an attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

Carl

I'll check on the sick leave issue, but I'd be willing to bet that their's is at least as good as ours and probably better.

I didn't mention anything about "modifying" the SWAPA scope language at all. I want us operate all Delta aircraft...period. I could foresee a transition agreement whereby we get SWAPA's scope from day one while allowing all current contracts until set dates stated in the transition agreement. As for JV's, I want out of all of them on day one. They are a curse. Right now we are terribly out of balance, and the agreements allow for this out of balance to remain for far too long before a rebalancing has to occur.

I want things to be simple. Alaska, Air France etc flies their own brand, and we fly Delta's. Period. I don't want their flying, and I damn sure want OURS back. NOW.

Carl

I'd be OK with a higher opening position and come down to SWAPA + 5%.

I'm reasonable.

Carl

I am too.

But I demand higher. My survey does for sure. Because it will come down but my floor is SWA+.

But I will look at everything in total.

And I don't believe the second TA will be worse than the first.