Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1071657)

Quickest way is probably the Hilton or Doubletree bus from ground transportation (tip the driver to keep the service). Cheapest way is the Delta GO bus by the lower level 2S door will drop you in front of the training center, but it runs somewhat less frequently (20 minute schedule).

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1071656)

Are you talking Southwest hourly rates or Southwest block hour costs? The company will attempt to use block hour costs with the NMB. If however we also go for Southwest block hours costs we will not get to the NMB. The company will sign the contract right away since it will not involve a large cost increase.
Be careful what you wish for since you might just get it. Lots of great things reported here about SW but when you go before the NMB they are going to have actual hard numbers of company reports not forum legend.
Southwest total block hour costs were 698 verses 690 at Delta. Delta's costs are skewed by 3 and 4 man operations but even when adjusted your looking at 650 for two man ops. In straight compensation Southwest averaged 166,000 per pilot. Delta Average 142,000 per pilot.
I don't know about you but my goals are quite a bit higher then that.

Airline Data Project

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1071544)

Answer: 8-1-11. The contract survey will be just that, a survey. Every pilot should complete it. We need 100% participation in order for the MEC to move forward with what the pilots want. Don't expect our contract survey or opener to be published until the opener has been exchanged. It is not good negotiating strategy to tell the other party what you intend to open with.[/I]

Originally Posted by FlyZ (Post 1071587)

^^^^^
Absolutely. There is no comparison to poker to be made. The cards come by chance, whereas the survey results are very deliberately put together after (hopefully) thousands of hours of work by the Delta pilots. To me, ALPA is overusing these analogies and hoping we won't think about it too hard.
I may be a little suspicious, but let's say we were given a summary of the results now. And let's say they don't match up to many of our expectations. We would likely attribute this to the legalese in the survey and DPA would get a big push. This could happen in time to change unions before openers.

Now let's say they don't tell us the survey results now. The company will be able to deduce them from the opener. In fact, I doubt the company cares that much about the results of the survey. They care about where we will start and how much we can be talked down. If we don't know the survey results, we might not get angry enough to get DPA the cards they need.

And, why the he!! do we have to be so suspicious of our own union? Can you form a union to negotiate with your other union on your behalf? To make sure they aren't taking advantage of you?

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1071666)

Two word... Plausible Deni-Ability. If the pilot group is outraged with the our opener or the company's first offer, it is much easier to say that the negotiation committee pushed for the key interests of the pilot majority as conveyed through the survey.

Personally, I think the survey results should be made public to the pilot group. We deserve to see were our fellow peers sit prior to section 6. The only way I could see it hurting us is if we low-ball what management is planning to offer. Somehow I seriously don't see that as being an issue.

I feel as though we a treated likely kids at times, given watered down piecemeal information that I could care less about, rather than being given information that is of substance. If I have to read one more article about lithium batteries or how great the progress is moving on crewpass I'm going to vent aggressively on random internet web boards while posting angry tweets and facebook status updates. :mad:

Originally Posted by tomgoodman (Post 1071582)

Carl,

That might save time, but I believe the NLRB held that making one "take it or leave it" offer and refusing to budge constitutes an unfair labor practice. It was a case in the '60s where General Electric allegedly did this, and I assume the ruling means that unions can't do it either.

Boulwarism: Ideas Have Consequences | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1071657)

Quickest way is probably the Hilton or Doubletree bus from ground transportation (tip the driver to keep the service). Cheapest way is the Delta GO bus by the lower level 2S door will drop you in front of the training center, but it runs somewhat less frequently (20 minute schedule).

Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1071658)

Really??? Does Hilton know about this?