Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by shiznit
I prefer a hard cap of 80 credit hours and the return of the bow wave!
6:00 min. per CALENDAR DAY.... No "average" anything. PER DAY for ALL events (training, home study, vacation, Reserve, DH only, Short call, non-domicile calendar day layover, etc.)!
Making premium pay easy is just a way to get guys to wh0re themselves out and reduce staffing.
6:00 min. per CALENDAR DAY.... No "average" anything. PER DAY for ALL events (training, home study, vacation, Reserve, DH only, Short call, non-domicile calendar day layover, etc.)!
Making premium pay easy is just a way to get guys to wh0re themselves out and reduce staffing.
Originally Posted by georgetg
I could go for that as well.
6:00 Daily Minimum Pay is long overdue.
Any company assigned activity = Minimum Pay for that day.
Cheers
George
6:00 Daily Minimum Pay is long overdue.
Any company assigned activity = Minimum Pay for that day.
Cheers
George
Originally Posted by scambo1
Shiz;
As far as I'm concerned that is a pretty acceptable fix too. It isn't that I am wishy washy. I definitely dont want a system in which I am constantly wondering if I should work more days for more money. I want to work a reasonable amount for more money. I like to be with my family a lot more than I like to be on the road.
Absolutely agree on the min day value for all items training, vacation, etc.
As far as I'm concerned that is a pretty acceptable fix too. It isn't that I am wishy washy. I definitely dont want a system in which I am constantly wondering if I should work more days for more money. I want to work a reasonable amount for more money. I like to be with my family a lot more than I like to be on the road.
Absolutely agree on the min day value for all items training, vacation, etc.
If the company needs me to do something, it's 6 hours per day - that includes vacation, training, distance learning etc. DHs need to count as a duty period as well for this 6 hour pay thingy.
10-05-2011, 12:49 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Charters to DFW...... Nice!
10-05-2011, 12:53 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by dragon
Agree!
If the company needs me to do something, it's 6 hours per day - that includes vacation, training, distance learning etc. DHs need to count as a duty period as well for this 6 hour pay thingy.
If the company needs me to do something, it's 6 hours per day - that includes vacation, training, distance learning etc. DHs need to count as a duty period as well for this 6 hour pay thingy.
Just quoting you but not for any other reason but to add to the discussion.
One thing that creeps in to my mind with the talk of AMR and a possible CH11 is the:
RA and Co will want labor peace with us. I would not be overly surprised to see a extension offer with pay and a few contract fixes thrown our way. Just put you mind around the possibility, and what you would expect out of it. No need to comment, but just think about that.
I have no info, it is just as though that I figured I would share. I do not want it to catch anyone off guard.
Also make sure everyone you are flying with fills out the survey.!!!!
10-05-2011, 01:07 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Reroute
I'm not opposed to the idea completely, but I am concerned about encouraging pilots to fly more hours to obtain premium pay. The more hours each of us flies, the fewer pilots we need in each category. Not good in my opinion. OTOH, GS allow premium pay without having to necessarily fly that many hours in a month. Even reserves can get them.
Perhaps dropping the threshold for premium to 70-75 hours with a cap, or some hybrid of hour based and GS premium pay.
IMO, the triggers for premium pay should be improved, but should not adversely effect manning. We have some sharp guys in our scheduling committee and a couple of scheduling gurus in the negotiating committee, I'm sure they can find some formula to increase premium pay without reducing the number of pilots needed to fly our schedule.
Perhaps dropping the threshold for premium to 70-75 hours with a cap, or some hybrid of hour based and GS premium pay.
IMO, the triggers for premium pay should be improved, but should not adversely effect manning. We have some sharp guys in our scheduling committee and a couple of scheduling gurus in the negotiating committee, I'm sure they can find some formula to increase premium pay without reducing the number of pilots needed to fly our schedule.
I completely agree reroute.
And like shiz mentioned, 80 hour cap, I'm interested...
10-05-2011, 01:16 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Another question, we never really put pay demands in terms of actual annual salary. We play the % game and let the pilot figure it out.
But here is my best estimation of our seniority by category, as we all know 12 years tops it off. But you can look at the FedEx/SWA equivalent aircraft and get a feel of where seniority is and there is my question - what should the average FedEx/SWA equivalent pilot be able to afford comfortably?
For instance and I'm going to go low ball here just to not persuade the answer:
MD88 B should be able to afford a $100K house, 1 used $10K car every 10 years, 2 kids but no college fund, spouse doesn't have to work.
MD88 A should be 40% better.
That's my low ball. Hopefully you get the point, but should the average be $70K a year? Or $130K a year? Determined by what they can afford.
But here is my best estimation of our seniority by category, as we all know 12 years tops it off. But you can look at the FedEx/SWA equivalent aircraft and get a feel of where seniority is and there is my question - what should the average FedEx/SWA equivalent pilot be able to afford comfortably?
For instance and I'm going to go low ball here just to not persuade the answer:
MD88 B should be able to afford a $100K house, 1 used $10K car every 10 years, 2 kids but no college fund, spouse doesn't have to work.
MD88 A should be 40% better.
That's my low ball. Hopefully you get the point, but should the average be $70K a year? Or $130K a year? Determined by what they can afford.
10-05-2011, 01:26 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
FtB:
Given this is not the First Rodeo for any aviator, I will submit that a FO on the lowest paying jet in yr three plus of longevity should be able to afford a typical middle class house; 250K, two newer cars with payments of about 400 each, schooling for their children, a college fund, able to put the max per year in their 401K and be able to do everything that a typical manager mid-upper level at a normal corporation should be able to do. That equates to 140-155K a year. It also should go up significantly from there.
Most pilots DAL has hired in the last five years have been doing the military for 10+ years and or the civilian world for 7-15 years. The bulk of pilots hired would be mid to upper level managers on a different career track at a min.
I continue to purport that to attract the best you have to pay em like you respect em.
The idea of a pilots in his mid 40's sitting reserve on the 7ER or 330 making 6K a month with kids going to college is preposterous. That pilot has been doing this job for 20+ years and should be paid in kind. Same goes for the 7ERA that sits reserve and makes 155K gross a year and is in his mid to late 50's.
Given this is not the First Rodeo for any aviator, I will submit that a FO on the lowest paying jet in yr three plus of longevity should be able to afford a typical middle class house; 250K, two newer cars with payments of about 400 each, schooling for their children, a college fund, able to put the max per year in their 401K and be able to do everything that a typical manager mid-upper level at a normal corporation should be able to do. That equates to 140-155K a year. It also should go up significantly from there.
Most pilots DAL has hired in the last five years have been doing the military for 10+ years and or the civilian world for 7-15 years. The bulk of pilots hired would be mid to upper level managers on a different career track at a min.
I continue to purport that to attract the best you have to pay em like you respect em.
The idea of a pilots in his mid 40's sitting reserve on the 7ER or 330 making 6K a month with kids going to college is preposterous. That pilot has been doing this job for 20+ years and should be paid in kind. Same goes for the 7ERA that sits reserve and makes 155K gross a year and is in his mid to late 50's.
10-05-2011, 01:26 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 302
I agree that we will see a 2 year contract extension with about a 5-10% raise and some contractual improvements.
10-05-2011, 01:31 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by groundstop
I agree that we will see a 2 year contract extension with about a 5-10% raise and some contractual improvements.
On another note, this just in on the DALPA Forum: (not posted by any DALPA official)
"Just got off the phone with the President of SWAPA.
I asked him to clarify their pay. He emphatically said the average SWA Captain makes between 220K and 260K. Some work less and make less, a few push 300K. The last year he flew the line he made over 270K working about 4 days a week.
He asked an FO near him what he made on his W2 last year, it was around 180K. He estimated he worked about 16 days a month.
Their 737s hold around 137 passengers.
He said no DALPA leader has called him personally to discuss their contract this go round. He did say the _ guys have spoken to him."
I assume "the _guys" is referring to DPA since that acronym is forbidden on the DALPA Forum.
10-05-2011, 01:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by groundstop
I agree that we will see a 2 year contract extension with about a 5-10% raise and some contractual improvements.
10-05-2011, 01:50 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by buzzpat
That wouldn't exactly constitute "labor peace" in my book. I won't even consider voting yes for a 5-10% pay raise.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
