Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-05-2011 | 04:22 PM
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
So Sad
RIP Steve Jobs
Cheers
George
RIP Steve Jobs
Cheers
George
10-05-2011 | 04:24 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Just quoting you but not for any other reason but to add to the discussion.
One thing that creeps in to my mind with the talk of AMR and a possible CH11 is the:
RA and Co will want labor peace with us. I would not be overly surprised to see a extension offer with pay and a few contract fixes thrown our way. Just put you mind around the possibility, and what you would expect out of it. No need to comment, but just think about that.
I have no info, it is just as though that I figured I would share. I do not want it to catch anyone off guard.
Also make sure everyone you are flying with fills out the survey.!!!!
One thing that creeps in to my mind with the talk of AMR and a possible CH11 is the:
RA and Co will want labor peace with us. I would not be overly surprised to see a extension offer with pay and a few contract fixes thrown our way. Just put you mind around the possibility, and what you would expect out of it. No need to comment, but just think about that.
I have no info, it is just as though that I figured I would share. I do not want it to catch anyone off guard.
Also make sure everyone you are flying with fills out the survey.!!!!
Carl
10-05-2011 | 04:32 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
10-05-2011 | 04:33 PM
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From: B-7ER JFK
FtB:
Given this is not the First Rodeo for any aviator, I will submit that a FO on the lowest paying jet in yr three plus of longevity should be able to afford a typical middle class house; 250K, two newer cars with payments of about 400 each, schooling for their children, a college fund, able to put the max per year in their 401K and be able to do everything that a typical manager mid-upper level at a normal corporation should be able to do. That equates to 140-155K a year. It also should go up significantly from there.
Most pilots DAL has hired in the last five years have been doing the military for 10+ years and or the civilian world for 7-15 years. The bulk of pilots hired would be mid to upper level managers on a different career track at a min.
I continue to purport that to attract the best you have to pay em like you respect em.
The idea of a pilots in his mid 40's sitting reserve on the 7ER or 330 making 6K a month with kids going to college is preposterous. That pilot has been doing this job for 20+ years and should be paid in kind. Same goes for the 7ERA that sits reserve and makes 155K gross a year and is in his mid to late 50's.
Given this is not the First Rodeo for any aviator, I will submit that a FO on the lowest paying jet in yr three plus of longevity should be able to afford a typical middle class house; 250K, two newer cars with payments of about 400 each, schooling for their children, a college fund, able to put the max per year in their 401K and be able to do everything that a typical manager mid-upper level at a normal corporation should be able to do. That equates to 140-155K a year. It also should go up significantly from there.
Most pilots DAL has hired in the last five years have been doing the military for 10+ years and or the civilian world for 7-15 years. The bulk of pilots hired would be mid to upper level managers on a different career track at a min.
I continue to purport that to attract the best you have to pay em like you respect em.
The idea of a pilots in his mid 40's sitting reserve on the 7ER or 330 making 6K a month with kids going to college is preposterous. That pilot has been doing this job for 20+ years and should be paid in kind. Same goes for the 7ERA that sits reserve and makes 155K gross a year and is in his mid to late 50's.
Best post you have posted in a very long time. Now send your card in and be my hero for the day !!
10-05-2011 | 04:34 PM
The Brown Dot +1
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From: 777B
Wouldn't surprise me to see ALPA endorse a proposal like that. But I sure hope the majority of this pilot group wouldn't even consider it!
On another note, this just in on the DALPA Forum: (not posted by any DALPA official)
"Just got off the phone with the President of SWAPA.
I asked him to clarify their pay. He emphatically said the average SWA Captain makes between 220K and 260K. Some work less and make less, a few push 300K. The last year he flew the line he made over 270K working about 4 days a week.
He asked an FO near him what he made on his W2 last year, it was around 180K. He estimated he worked about 16 days a month.
Their 737s hold around 137 passengers.
He said no DALPA leader has called him personally to discuss their contract this go round. He did say the _ guys have spoken to him."
I assume "the _guys" is referring to DPA since that acronym is forbidden on the DALPA Forum.
On another note, this just in on the DALPA Forum: (not posted by any DALPA official)
"Just got off the phone with the President of SWAPA.
I asked him to clarify their pay. He emphatically said the average SWA Captain makes between 220K and 260K. Some work less and make less, a few push 300K. The last year he flew the line he made over 270K working about 4 days a week.
He asked an FO near him what he made on his W2 last year, it was around 180K. He estimated he worked about 16 days a month.
Their 737s hold around 137 passengers.
He said no DALPA leader has called him personally to discuss their contract this go round. He did say the _ guys have spoken to him."
I assume "the _guys" is referring to DPA since that acronym is forbidden on the DALPA Forum.
Thanks for posting that 88, but you are preaching to the choir over here. Until ALPA puts it out officially, many of our co-workers will think it is the DPA huffing and puffing. Until someone with cojones does a *.* to all delta pilots, malingering whiners like you and me will be just left with our uninformed complaining position.
We know DALPA is managements communication arm, we get it. Its the 70% that doesnt that you and me have to convince.
10-05-2011 | 04:36 PM
The Brown Dot +1
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From: 777B
10-05-2011 | 04:51 PM
At home on the maddog!
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Thanks for posting that 88, but you are preaching to the choir over here. Until ALPA puts it out officially, many of our co-workers will think it is the DPA huffing and puffing. Until someone with cojones does a *.* to all delta pilots, malingering whiners like you and me will be just left with our uninformed complaining position.
We know DALPA is managements communication arm, we get it. Its the 70% that doesnt that you and me have to convince.
We know DALPA is managements communication arm, we get it. Its the 70% that doesnt that you and me have to convince.
10-05-2011 | 04:51 PM
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From: B-7ER JFK
10-05-2011 | 05:06 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
B) I mean I am not smoking just anything.
It's Labrador btw.
C) see highlighted in bold to answer why it was $100K...
Another question, we never really put pay demands in terms of actual annual salary. We play the % game and let the pilot figure it out.
But here is my best estimation of our seniority by category, as we all know 12 years tops it off. But you can look at the FedEx/SWA equivalent aircraft and get a feel of where seniority is and there is my question - what should the average FedEx/SWA equivalent pilot be able to afford comfortably?
For instance and I'm going to go low ball here just to not persuade the answer:
MD88 B should be able to afford a $100K house, 1 used $10K car every 10 years, 2 kids but no college fund, spouse doesn't have to work.
MD88 A should be 40% better.
That's my low ball. Hopefully you get the point, but should the average be $70K a year? Or $130K a year? Determined by what they can afford.
But here is my best estimation of our seniority by category, as we all know 12 years tops it off. But you can look at the FedEx/SWA equivalent aircraft and get a feel of where seniority is and there is my question - what should the average FedEx/SWA equivalent pilot be able to afford comfortably?
For instance and I'm going to go low ball here just to not persuade the answer:
MD88 B should be able to afford a $100K house, 1 used $10K car every 10 years, 2 kids but no college fund, spouse doesn't have to work.
MD88 A should be 40% better.
That's my low ball. Hopefully you get the point, but should the average be $70K a year? Or $130K a year? Determined by what they can afford.
FtB:
Given this is not the First Rodeo for any aviator, I will submit that a FO on the lowest paying jet in yr three plus of longevity should be able to afford a typical middle class house; 250K, two newer cars with payments of about 400 each, schooling for their children, a college fund, able to put the max per year in their 401K and be able to do everything that a typical manager mid-upper level at a normal corporation should be able to do. That equates to 140-155K a year. It also should go up significantly from there.
Most pilots DAL has hired in the last five years have been doing the military for 10+ years and or the civilian world for 7-15 years. The bulk of pilots hired would be mid to upper level managers on a different career track at a min.
I continue to purport that to attract the best you have to pay em like you respect em.
The idea of a pilots in his mid 40's sitting reserve on the 7ER or 330 making 6K a month with kids going to college is preposterous. That pilot has been doing this job for 20+ years and should be paid in kind. Same goes for the 7ERA that sits reserve and makes 155K gross a year and is in his mid to late 50's.
Given this is not the First Rodeo for any aviator, I will submit that a FO on the lowest paying jet in yr three plus of longevity should be able to afford a typical middle class house; 250K, two newer cars with payments of about 400 each, schooling for their children, a college fund, able to put the max per year in their 401K and be able to do everything that a typical manager mid-upper level at a normal corporation should be able to do. That equates to 140-155K a year. It also should go up significantly from there.
Most pilots DAL has hired in the last five years have been doing the military for 10+ years and or the civilian world for 7-15 years. The bulk of pilots hired would be mid to upper level managers on a different career track at a min.
I continue to purport that to attract the best you have to pay em like you respect em.
The idea of a pilots in his mid 40's sitting reserve on the 7ER or 330 making 6K a month with kids going to college is preposterous. That pilot has been doing this job for 20+ years and should be paid in kind. Same goes for the 7ERA that sits reserve and makes 155K gross a year and is in his mid to late 50's.
Personally. Band NB together, the average B pilot and I'm going to say a 6 year pilot (halfway to max longevity), should be able to afford a mortgage on a $350K house with 20% down, a typical 6% fixed rate 15 year mortgage (aiming high) being no more than 30% of the pilots post tax budget.
Given tax rates, I believe that puts said pilot right at $130,000.
If we figure a 75 hour cap, you're looking at $145/hr.
Figure FO's make 35% less than Captains then you're looking at $222/hr for a Captain or $270ish if you interpolate the numbers out to a 12 year Captain rate. Seems high but there is a cap and bow wave being figured in. That's my $.02.
10-05-2011 | 05:15 PM
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From: DAL Pilot
Personally. Band NB together, the average B pilot and I'm going to say a 6 year pilot (halfway to max longevity), should be able to afford a mortgage on a $350K house with 20% down, a typical 6% fixed rate 15 year mortgage (aiming high) being no more than 30% of the pilots post tax budget.
Given tax rates, I believe that puts said pilot right at $130,000.
If we figure a 75 hour cap, you're looking at $145/hr. Figure FO's make 35% less than Captains then you're looking at $222/hr for a Captain or $270ish if you interpolate the numbers out to a 12 year Captain rate. Seems high but there is a cap and bow wave being figured in.
That's my $.02.
Given tax rates, I believe that puts said pilot right at $130,000.
If we figure a 75 hour cap, you're looking at $145/hr.
Figure FO's make 35% less than Captains then you're looking at $222/hr for a Captain or $270ish if you interpolate the numbers out to a 12 year Captain rate. Seems high but there is a cap and bow wave being figured in. That's my $.02.
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