Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-30-2011, 12:01 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Contract Survey Insight
When typing in that scope is most important, make sure to list turboprop scope limits too. Read below.
Why we need prop limits in the next PWA. Have someone spread this around........
PWC: Roomier fuselage key for next generation turboprop
Pratt & Whitney Canada this summer will begin assembling portions of its next-generation turboprop engine in anticipation of a launch platform for a clean sheet 90-100-seat turboprop potentially as early as 2012.
"Most sales today are for 70-seat aircraft," says Richard Dussault, P&WC vice-president of marketing. "We definitely see a place for 90- to 100-seat aircraft and that's where we're aiming for with a 5,000-7,000shp engine. We could easily do 8,000shp as well."
Rather than linear extensions of current product lines dominated by ATR and Bombardier aircraft powered by PWC engines, Dussault says there's a "clear push" for aircraft that are more spacious in cabin size than today's turboprops, a trend exhibited in the evolution from small-cabin first generation regional jets to the larger Embraer EJets and Bombardier CSeries families.
"The size of the aircraft relatively speaking might be a bit larger than today's turboprop, with larger overhead bins," he adds.
In terms of speed and altitude, Dussault says 300-350kt (555-647km/hr) is the "most likely goal of that market" with similar cruise altitudes to today's turboprops - in the mid-20,000ft (6,096m) range.
Fastest in today's turboprop fleet is the Bombardier Q400 with a maximum cruise speed of 360kt. The 68-78-seat aircraft is powered by two Pratt PW150A engines, each rated at 5,070shp (3,780kW), and connected to six-bladed Dowty Aerospace propellers.
"The big question is speed," says Dussault. "To preserve the economy of turboprop, you have to have the right speed. Though higher speed gives longer routes and more turns for the aircraft per day, it comes with higher fuel costs. When turboprops became very popular in end of the 1990s, [lower] speed was the tradeoff."
PWC is working with sister company Hamilton Sundstrand to develop an integrated propulsion system offering which will include the propeller, engine, nacelle and associated components. However Dussault says PWC will offer an engine-only option if a launch airframer decides to perform that work in-house.
Dussault expects the clean sheet aircraft to have "sixed-bladed or more" propellers that use "conventional" propeller technologies. "A lot of the technology will come in the way we integrate the engine and propeller control into single integrated system," he adds. Target reduction in fuel burn for the centreline engine is 20%.
Dussault says PWC will be ready to launch the new engine next year, timing that suggests a possible position on the 90-seat turboprop that ATR partner Alenia says it is committed to developing. Bombardier has been considering a derivative of the Q400 for the 90-seat sector.
Meanwhile, PWC is building a prototype engine which Dussault says will be ready for full-up testing next year, probably in Montreal. Dussault says the company has received "some raw materials" for the engine and is starting detailed manufacturing, with the first compressor unit to be ready for testing potentially later this year.
Once a launch customer is identified, PWC, per its usual process, will build 8-10 test engines and begin a flight test campaign on the company's Boeing 747SP testbed from its Mirabel facility. The most recent new engine test campaign for PWC took place in 1998 with the certification of the Q400's PW150 engine on the company's Boeing 720 testbed, an aircraft that is being retired.
Why we need prop limits in the next PWA. Have someone spread this around........
PWC: Roomier fuselage key for next generation turboprop
Pratt & Whitney Canada this summer will begin assembling portions of its next-generation turboprop engine in anticipation of a launch platform for a clean sheet 90-100-seat turboprop potentially as early as 2012.
"Most sales today are for 70-seat aircraft," says Richard Dussault, P&WC vice-president of marketing. "We definitely see a place for 90- to 100-seat aircraft and that's where we're aiming for with a 5,000-7,000shp engine. We could easily do 8,000shp as well."
Rather than linear extensions of current product lines dominated by ATR and Bombardier aircraft powered by PWC engines, Dussault says there's a "clear push" for aircraft that are more spacious in cabin size than today's turboprops, a trend exhibited in the evolution from small-cabin first generation regional jets to the larger Embraer EJets and Bombardier CSeries families.
"The size of the aircraft relatively speaking might be a bit larger than today's turboprop, with larger overhead bins," he adds.
In terms of speed and altitude, Dussault says 300-350kt (555-647km/hr) is the "most likely goal of that market" with similar cruise altitudes to today's turboprops - in the mid-20,000ft (6,096m) range.
Fastest in today's turboprop fleet is the Bombardier Q400 with a maximum cruise speed of 360kt. The 68-78-seat aircraft is powered by two Pratt PW150A engines, each rated at 5,070shp (3,780kW), and connected to six-bladed Dowty Aerospace propellers.
"The big question is speed," says Dussault. "To preserve the economy of turboprop, you have to have the right speed. Though higher speed gives longer routes and more turns for the aircraft per day, it comes with higher fuel costs. When turboprops became very popular in end of the 1990s, [lower] speed was the tradeoff."
PWC is working with sister company Hamilton Sundstrand to develop an integrated propulsion system offering which will include the propeller, engine, nacelle and associated components. However Dussault says PWC will offer an engine-only option if a launch airframer decides to perform that work in-house.
Dussault expects the clean sheet aircraft to have "sixed-bladed or more" propellers that use "conventional" propeller technologies. "A lot of the technology will come in the way we integrate the engine and propeller control into single integrated system," he adds. Target reduction in fuel burn for the centreline engine is 20%.
Dussault says PWC will be ready to launch the new engine next year, timing that suggests a possible position on the 90-seat turboprop that ATR partner Alenia says it is committed to developing. Bombardier has been considering a derivative of the Q400 for the 90-seat sector.
Meanwhile, PWC is building a prototype engine which Dussault says will be ready for full-up testing next year, probably in Montreal. Dussault says the company has received "some raw materials" for the engine and is starting detailed manufacturing, with the first compressor unit to be ready for testing potentially later this year.
Once a launch customer is identified, PWC, per its usual process, will build 8-10 test engines and begin a flight test campaign on the company's Boeing 747SP testbed from its Mirabel facility. The most recent new engine test campaign for PWC took place in 1998 with the certification of the Q400's PW150 engine on the company's Boeing 720 testbed, an aircraft that is being retired.
09-30-2011, 12:09 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
When I went to Punta Cana there were lots of half naked women, mostly European, none were young. Well, except 1 American. Oh, and lots of banana hammocks.
There were a lot of naked children at the pool. Don't ask me. I thought it was weird but I guess some parents are okay with the el natural child.
There were a lot of naked children at the pool. Don't ask me. I thought it was weird but I guess some parents are okay with the el natural child.
There were a lot of Russians when I was there. There was also a Braziilian gal with an absolutely world class ... when I would begin mojito ingestion right after breakfast, I liked to have a good view of her for the day.
The russian women ate more fruit and melons than you could believe. It was like if you let my son loose in an ice cream store...pounds of fruit at each setting.
Also, my post made it seem like mojitos were cheap - they were free - the place was cheap / inexpensive.
09-30-2011, 12:28 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
A contract which a big turboprop loophole is like driving an SUV with the windows rolled down and no seat belts ...
Don't worry. It was only a test.
Don't worry. It was only a test.
09-30-2011, 12:51 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
There was talk that Airbus was trying to team Embraer and ATR together to build a big turboprop. I swear if you straighten the wing on the E-Jet and put props on it you'll have a heck of a good turboprop... hope Delta buys them. I'll be so happy to fly it.
09-30-2011, 12:51 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,515
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Don't worry. It was only a test.
09-30-2011, 01:21 PM
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MD-80 Drag-Reducing Kit Wins FAA Approval
Sep 30 , 2011
By Guy Norris
A drag-reducing upgrade kit developed for Boeing MD-80 operators has received supplemental type certification from the FAA.
Developed by Long Beach, Calif.-based engineering company Super98, the first part of the kit is initially designed to reduce fuel burn by 2.5% or more, with a further 1% benefit available from a more extensive upgrade. Fuel savings were verified in flight tests of an instrumented MD-83 in late 2010 and early 2011.
Fuel savings from the Phase 1 kit are estimated at more than $236,000 per aircraft per year based on a $3/gallon oil price, says Super98. The Phase 1 kit is divided into two sub-kits, the first of which includes flap hinge fairings forward and aft, aileron and elevator tab hinge covers, wing-body sealing and wing trailing edge seals. The second sub-kit includes flap segment seals, a windshield fairing, rudder lower gap seal, aileron edge seal, a main landing gear door skid, refaired tail skid and a horizontal stabilizer tip seal.
The additional modifications that will deliver a further 1% drag reduction require more time to install than overnight maintenance stops. They include slat lower trailing edge seals, slat segment gap seals and spoiler trailing edge extensions.
“We’ve got the first parts assembled and they’re ready to go,” says VP-Sales and Marketing Rolf Sellge. Production plans are currently based on providing up to six shipsets per month. Although MD-80s are being replaced throughout the type’s main operating arenas in the U.S. and Europe, Sellge says the wait list for newer Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 models means many will remain in service well into the decade and beyond. Breakeven for the drag kits comes in a year for Phase 1 and a year-and-a-half for the full kit, he adds.
Super98 expects to have the first kits installed around year-end and the first customer for the full package to be on contract in the first quarter of 2012. Overall, more than 700 MD-80s remain in service.
AVIATION WEEK
Dugan Kinetics
Sep 30 , 2011
By Guy Norris
A drag-reducing upgrade kit developed for Boeing MD-80 operators has received supplemental type certification from the FAA.
Developed by Long Beach, Calif.-based engineering company Super98, the first part of the kit is initially designed to reduce fuel burn by 2.5% or more, with a further 1% benefit available from a more extensive upgrade. Fuel savings were verified in flight tests of an instrumented MD-83 in late 2010 and early 2011.
Fuel savings from the Phase 1 kit are estimated at more than $236,000 per aircraft per year based on a $3/gallon oil price, says Super98. The Phase 1 kit is divided into two sub-kits, the first of which includes flap hinge fairings forward and aft, aileron and elevator tab hinge covers, wing-body sealing and wing trailing edge seals. The second sub-kit includes flap segment seals, a windshield fairing, rudder lower gap seal, aileron edge seal, a main landing gear door skid, refaired tail skid and a horizontal stabilizer tip seal.
The additional modifications that will deliver a further 1% drag reduction require more time to install than overnight maintenance stops. They include slat lower trailing edge seals, slat segment gap seals and spoiler trailing edge extensions.
“We’ve got the first parts assembled and they’re ready to go,” says VP-Sales and Marketing Rolf Sellge. Production plans are currently based on providing up to six shipsets per month. Although MD-80s are being replaced throughout the type’s main operating arenas in the U.S. and Europe, Sellge says the wait list for newer Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 models means many will remain in service well into the decade and beyond. Breakeven for the drag kits comes in a year for Phase 1 and a year-and-a-half for the full kit, he adds.
Super98 expects to have the first kits installed around year-end and the first customer for the full package to be on contract in the first quarter of 2012. Overall, more than 700 MD-80s remain in service.
AVIATION WEEK
Dugan Kinetics
09-30-2011, 01:23 PM
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
117 MD88s x $236,000 (if $3/gal is the price) = $27N savings and a longer life for Bars beloved Douglas jet!
09-30-2011, 02:24 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
117 MD88s x $236,000 (if $3/gal is the price) = $27N savings and a longer life for Bars beloved Douglas jet!
They're (or should I say we're) making progress
MD80, built in Long Beach ... engineered on your ramp. If you notice, Boeing jets don't have these "fixes" conceived by Little Lebowski Urban Achievers over beers & "medical" marijuana, Certified from "facility" their parent's basement. Seems like every other year someone has something new to fix what's wrong with a Douglas product. Maybe they should try "intake turbulators," "flying french fries," or "Bio Willie" next. These are guaranteed to increase fuel economy by 11%: http://www.tornadofuelsaver.com/
Really truly, if they start sealing all the big gaps in the MD80's they need to first run one by MSP the last week of January and hose it down good with TYPE IV and try that configuration. Anyone else had that goop bridge the gap on the stabilizer? Takes a pretty good yank to get the trim tab to break the elevator free.
That's the other concern with MD mods. The thing barely does what it does. Even innocuous changes in the hope of making it conform with any other fleet result in fire trucks and emergency evacuations (where the tail doesn't fall off). The margin is marginal.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-30-2011 at 02:45 PM.
09-30-2011, 02:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
A contract which a big turboprop loophole is like driving an SUV with the windows rolled down and no seat belts ...
Don't worry. It was only a test.
Don't worry. It was only a test.
09-30-2011, 02:58 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Well if they fix the draggy airframe, that would just leave the brakes, they work, you just have to press the pedals the engines they work and they're cheap the flight control system turn left it goes left, turn right it goes right, pull back nose goes up and push forward and nose goes down- fwiw it seems hydraulic controls fail a lot more often, no?, the trim system no comment, it could work faster, the hydraulics works, ground lift dumpers stops fine, the wings works every time, twisted crew bag netting they fixed that, standby instrumentation there is a fix to that, leaky windows no comment,the elevatorsee flight control systems, the auto pilot worksand the avionics to fix it's the basic setup at the 757/767... old .
They're (or should I say we're) making progress.
MD80, built in Long Beach ... engineered on your ramp. If you notice, Boeing jets don't have these "fixes" conceived by trade school drop outs over beers, Certified from "facility" their parent's basement. Seems like every other year someone has something new to fix what's wrong with a Douglas product.
Really truly, if they start sealing all the big gaps in the MD80's they need to first run one by MSP the last week of January and hose it down good with TYPE IV. Anyone else had that goop bridge the gap on the elevator and seal it up?
They're (or should I say we're) making progress.
MD80, built in Long Beach ... engineered on your ramp. If you notice, Boeing jets don't have these "fixes" conceived by trade school drop outs over beers, Certified from "facility" their parent's basement. Seems like every other year someone has something new to fix what's wrong with a Douglas product.
Really truly, if they start sealing all the big gaps in the MD80's they need to first run one by MSP the last week of January and hose it down good with TYPE IV. Anyone else had that goop bridge the gap on the elevator and seal it up?
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