Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-26-2011 | 02:27 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 4
Just throwing my 2 cents in here - I've been on reserve for the last two years (but not this month, training pushed me to a line holder) but I found reserve to be well, palatable. It's that or downgrade to a different airplane. I'm happy with what I'm flying. When I was NYC based, I could make it on LC, so there were times I sat reserve at home. SC obviously meant a commute to the base, but hey, it was better than those AA guys who sat for DAYS in the crashpad, not getting a trip and not going home.
Now I'm live where I'm base, and in base reserve is pretty sweeet. LC without a trip is basically a day off, and SC means no beer and have to stay around town. I can still go work out, take kid to the park, go the mall, etc.
In the end, someone has to sit reserve, as a junior guy that falls to me. Fine - it's the airline business. In my experience, a lot of the complaints about reserve come from those who commute a long way. The closer you are to the base, the easier it is.
About the separate lineholder/reserve system - no way, hate the idea. It's nice having the option to bid down to reserve when you really need something off, or for a senior reserve guy to get a line once in while.
Now I'm live where I'm base, and in base reserve is pretty sweeet. LC without a trip is basically a day off, and SC means no beer and have to stay around town. I can still go work out, take kid to the park, go the mall, etc.
In the end, someone has to sit reserve, as a junior guy that falls to me. Fine - it's the airline business. In my experience, a lot of the complaints about reserve come from those who commute a long way. The closer you are to the base, the easier it is.
About the separate lineholder/reserve system - no way, hate the idea. It's nice having the option to bid down to reserve when you really need something off, or for a senior reserve guy to get a line once in while.
The #1 thing that needs to change here (for reserves) is getting more days off, or a lot more than 70 hours if we are going to be on the hook for 18 days (my opinion).
10-26-2011 | 02:39 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,724
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
RD,
Answering your questions from above:
Does it mean that the more senior get to choose to stay at home and not fly?It depends on how much you weight seniority. Giving senior pilots the most possible weight would allow them to pass on trips until the junior guys fly to the limit. This requires the company to man the category with more reserves to handled the lopsided distribution of flying.
The company does not like this.
Junior guys on reserve don't like this. With the possible exception that it requires more total pilots - possible hiring but small consolation while they are being abused.
Senior guys on reserve like this.
On the other hand with the current system seniority has almost zero weight - basically a tie breaker. Consider this:
Senior pilot has flown for a total of 9 days with a raw score of 48.
Junior pilot has flown for a total of 9 days with a raw score of 49.
Both guys have the same days of availability - senior guy gets assigned first unless the junior guy chooses to lower his raw score. So in this case the senior pilot has no real seniority advantage.
If seniority were considered in the reserve system, instead of RAW value, wouldn't the more junior folks be getting a worse deal than we have already?
You can see from the above that there is a spectrum along which you can weigh seniority to favor the senior pilots and disadvantage the junior pilots. In the past we operated more to the favor seniority end of the spectrum. We are currently operating more toward the no weight for senority which by the way appears to more efficient for the company.
There are two separate issues in my mind when trying to improve our system:
1. Find a method to weigh seniority that would not cause the company to carry more reserves or minimize the additional reserves required. Or else just accept the higher cost of more reserves required.
2. Find a suitable seniority weighing mechanism that would favor the senior pilots but not totally hose the junior guys. Basically, how much weight should we give seniority. Some guys want the system to absolutely favor the senior guys. Other guys want seniority to not count at all in reserve assignments. Most guys (myself included) want to try to figure out the sweet spot that gives senior guys some but not a total advantage in reserve assignments.
If you keep up with this post there have been many suggested improvements to our reserve system that tweak the seniority advantage at minimal cost to the company.
One thing that absolutely needs to fixed is the reserve guarantee needs to be 75 hours minimum or even 75 for long call pilots and 79 for short call pilots. If its good enough for DAL's preferred Pilots (Alaska Pilots) its good enough for us.
Scoop
Answering your questions from above:
Does it mean that the more senior get to choose to stay at home and not fly?It depends on how much you weight seniority. Giving senior pilots the most possible weight would allow them to pass on trips until the junior guys fly to the limit. This requires the company to man the category with more reserves to handled the lopsided distribution of flying.
The company does not like this.
Junior guys on reserve don't like this. With the possible exception that it requires more total pilots - possible hiring but small consolation while they are being abused.
Senior guys on reserve like this.
On the other hand with the current system seniority has almost zero weight - basically a tie breaker. Consider this:
Senior pilot has flown for a total of 9 days with a raw score of 48.
Junior pilot has flown for a total of 9 days with a raw score of 49.
Both guys have the same days of availability - senior guy gets assigned first unless the junior guy chooses to lower his raw score. So in this case the senior pilot has no real seniority advantage.
If seniority were considered in the reserve system, instead of RAW value, wouldn't the more junior folks be getting a worse deal than we have already?
You can see from the above that there is a spectrum along which you can weigh seniority to favor the senior pilots and disadvantage the junior pilots. In the past we operated more to the favor seniority end of the spectrum. We are currently operating more toward the no weight for senority which by the way appears to more efficient for the company.
There are two separate issues in my mind when trying to improve our system:
1. Find a method to weigh seniority that would not cause the company to carry more reserves or minimize the additional reserves required. Or else just accept the higher cost of more reserves required.
2. Find a suitable seniority weighing mechanism that would favor the senior pilots but not totally hose the junior guys. Basically, how much weight should we give seniority. Some guys want the system to absolutely favor the senior guys. Other guys want seniority to not count at all in reserve assignments. Most guys (myself included) want to try to figure out the sweet spot that gives senior guys some but not a total advantage in reserve assignments.
If you keep up with this post there have been many suggested improvements to our reserve system that tweak the seniority advantage at minimal cost to the company.
One thing that absolutely needs to fixed is the reserve guarantee needs to be 75 hours minimum or even 75 for long call pilots and 79 for short call pilots. If its good enough for DAL's preferred Pilots (Alaska Pilots) its good enough for us.
Scoop
On the other hand, I think short call should pay...
Local pilots could pick up the shortcall and get the extra cash and the commuters spend more time at home, less money on the hotel/crashpad.
In my opinion this would increase reserve pay/QOL more than seniority would.
What the optimal mechanism for implementing short call bidding/pay but there has to be a way and with the new FTDT rules it should be easy to argue sine shortfall now will be considered duty.
Maybe we can throw the shortcall days in open time for pickup. Maybe each shorcall gets the pilot 5:15 (should be 6:00) credit towards 70hrs (should be 75) and 1 hour pay on top of 75hrs.
Just a thought.
Cheers
George
10-26-2011 | 02:51 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,724
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
ALV 72-80 = 76 reserve guarantee
ALV 68-76 = 72 reserve guarantee
FWIW the Min guarantee floor should be 70 for all.
Cheers
George
10-26-2011 | 02:57 PM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Temping was a sweet deal for commuters. If the company needed to level reserves among the bases temporarily, they would give you a position in another base for a month. They'd give you positive space travel from your home (not base) to get there, and pay you per diem from the time you left home until you got back home whether you got a trip or not. They would also give you a hotel room to sit reserve in. You could also get a temporary block as well, but that never happened to me. It was strictly voluntary, so you'd bid for it on a monthly basis. So, if you were a NYC7ERB, but lived closer to ATL, you would keep a voluntary temp bid in for ATL7ERB for example.
10-26-2011 | 03:07 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
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Remember, NWA had monthly APE (AE) bids so base swapping really wasn't an issue. Also, if you were a block holder without a full sked at the end of the bidding, you could elect to stay at home for 65 hrs. pay or bid a RSV sked for rsv guarantee (75 hrs)
10-26-2011 | 03:11 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,003
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From: Captain Jack
Just throwing my 2 cents in here - I've been on reserve for the last two years (but not this month, training pushed me to a line holder) but I found reserve to be well, palatable. It's that or downgrade to a different airplane. I'm happy with what I'm flying. When I was NYC based, I could make it on LC, so there were times I sat reserve at home. SC obviously meant a commute to the base, but hey, it was better than those AA guys who sat for DAYS in the crashpad, not getting a trip and not going home.
Now I'm live where I'm base, and in base reserve is pretty sweeet. LC without a trip is basically a day off, and SC means no beer and have to stay around town. I can still go work out, take kid to the park, go the mall, etc.
In the end, someone has to sit reserve, as a junior guy that falls to me. Fine - it's the airline business. In my experience, a lot of the complaints about reserve come from those who commute a long way. The closer you are to the base, the easier it is.
About the separate lineholder/reserve system - no way, hate the idea. It's nice having the option to bid down to reserve when you really need something off, or for a senior reserve guy to get a line once in while.
Now I'm live where I'm base, and in base reserve is pretty sweeet. LC without a trip is basically a day off, and SC means no beer and have to stay around town. I can still go work out, take kid to the park, go the mall, etc.
In the end, someone has to sit reserve, as a junior guy that falls to me. Fine - it's the airline business. In my experience, a lot of the complaints about reserve come from those who commute a long way. The closer you are to the base, the easier it is.
About the separate lineholder/reserve system - no way, hate the idea. It's nice having the option to bid down to reserve when you really need something off, or for a senior reserve guy to get a line once in while.
I agree 100%!!!!
10-26-2011 | 03:34 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Btw, I thought that was you that asked or I dont remember who asked I just didn't want to come across as a father more concerned with the bill than the girl. So that's totally on me, don't feel bad because it's my bad.
I will say if you've never seen your 2 year old on a seditive it can be very funny. She put one leg in the air, started telling some stories, her eyes were wide open and her speech slured. The nurse was laughing very hard and kept saying now you know what this looks like for later... yeah, not interested in that right now.
10-26-2011 | 04:18 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,207
Likes: 53
From: Legacy FO
CNBC ... 787 special on now
10-26-2011 | 05:07 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Somebody posted this on another website trying to determine what T3 was like back when Pan Am was at it's peak. This is from Live and Let Die from 1973:
10-26-2011 | 05:09 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
This is interesting: (sorry for the formatting)
______________________________
RELEASE #10.DCPA
FEBRUARY 10, 2010
PILOT-LED ALLIANCE TARGETS SAFETY INITIATIVES AT DELTA CONNECTION AIRLINES
ATLANTA—YESTERDAY, AT THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION OFFICES IN ATLANTA, THE DELTA
CONNECTION PILOTS ALLIANCE (DCPA) WAS OFFICIALLY ESTABLISHED.
THE DCPA IS COMPRISED OF
ALPA REPRESENTED AIRLINES WITH SIGNIFICANT ALLIANCE AND CODESHARE RELATIONSHIPS UNDER
THE DELTA BRAND.
THIS IS THE FIRST PILOT LED ALLIANCE EVER CREATED TO BUILD A RELATIONSHIP OF MUTUAL TRUST
AND COOPERATION WITH A GOAL TO STANDARDIZE, COORDINATE AND HARMONIZE SAFETY, SECURITY
AND TRAINING FOR ALL CARRIERS UNDER THE DELTA BRAND.
DCPA, WHICH INCLUDES THE ALPA
REPRESENTED PILOT GROUPS OF ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST (ASA), COMAIR, COMPASS, MESABA AND
PINNACLE, SUBSEQUENTLY ADOPTED A POLICY MANUAL FORMALIZING ITS STRUCTURE AND THE
INTENT TO ADDRESS THE SPECIAL CONCERNS OF ITS PILOT GROUPS.
THE PRIMARY FOCUS OF THE ALLIANCE IS TO IMPROVE SAFETY, TRAINING, WORK ENVIRONMENT AND
THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE. THE ALLIANCE SEEKS TO REMOVE COMPETITIVE PRESSURES AND
ESTABLISH A COLLABORATIVE WORKING PHILOSOPHY THAT CULTIVATES INDUSTRY BEST PRACTICES
AT EACH AIRLINE. IN THIS WAY, INITIATIVES CAN BE EFFICIENTLY IMPLEMENTED TO IMPROVE SAFETY,
STANDARDIZE TRAINING, AND SUPPORT THE LONG-TERM CAREER PROSPECTS OF THE AIRLINES’
PROFESSIONAL PILOTS.
THE MEMBER AIRLINE GROUPS ARE REPRESENTED WITHIN THE ALLIANCE BY THEIR RESPECTIVE ALPA
MASTER EXECUTIVE COUNCIL CHAIRMEN. CHAIRMAN CAPT. DAVID NIEUWENHUIS STATED, “AS A PILOT
GROUP ALLIANCE, WE ARE WELL POSITIONED TO PARTNER IN THE IMPROVEMENT OF SAFETY,
SECURITY AND TRAINING STANDARDS AT THE ALLIANCE AIRLINES. PROFESSIONAL PILOT
INVOLVEMENT IS CRUCIAL TO REALIZING HIGHER STANDARDS AND INCREASING PUBLIC TRUST.”
FOUNDED IN 1931, ALPA REPRESENTS 54,000 PILOTS AT 36 AIRLINES IN THE U.S. AND CANADA. ALPA
REPRESENTS OVER 5600 DELTA CONNECTION PILOTS COMBINED AT ASA, COMAIR, COMPASS, MESABA
AND PINNACLE. VISIT THE ALPA WEBSITE AT Air Line Pilots Association, International.
SOURCE: ALPA
DCPA SPOKESPERSON: CAPT. DAVID NIEUWENHUIS, ASA MEC CHAIRMAN, 703-481-5566
______________________________
RELEASE #10.DCPA
FEBRUARY 10, 2010
PILOT-LED ALLIANCE TARGETS SAFETY INITIATIVES AT DELTA CONNECTION AIRLINES
ATLANTA—YESTERDAY, AT THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION OFFICES IN ATLANTA, THE DELTA
CONNECTION PILOTS ALLIANCE (DCPA) WAS OFFICIALLY ESTABLISHED.
THE DCPA IS COMPRISED OF
ALPA REPRESENTED AIRLINES WITH SIGNIFICANT ALLIANCE AND CODESHARE RELATIONSHIPS UNDER
THE DELTA BRAND.
THIS IS THE FIRST PILOT LED ALLIANCE EVER CREATED TO BUILD A RELATIONSHIP OF MUTUAL TRUST
AND COOPERATION WITH A GOAL TO STANDARDIZE, COORDINATE AND HARMONIZE SAFETY, SECURITY
AND TRAINING FOR ALL CARRIERS UNDER THE DELTA BRAND.
DCPA, WHICH INCLUDES THE ALPA
REPRESENTED PILOT GROUPS OF ATLANTIC SOUTHEAST (ASA), COMAIR, COMPASS, MESABA AND
PINNACLE, SUBSEQUENTLY ADOPTED A POLICY MANUAL FORMALIZING ITS STRUCTURE AND THE
INTENT TO ADDRESS THE SPECIAL CONCERNS OF ITS PILOT GROUPS.
THE PRIMARY FOCUS OF THE ALLIANCE IS TO IMPROVE SAFETY, TRAINING, WORK ENVIRONMENT AND
THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE. THE ALLIANCE SEEKS TO REMOVE COMPETITIVE PRESSURES AND
ESTABLISH A COLLABORATIVE WORKING PHILOSOPHY THAT CULTIVATES INDUSTRY BEST PRACTICES
AT EACH AIRLINE. IN THIS WAY, INITIATIVES CAN BE EFFICIENTLY IMPLEMENTED TO IMPROVE SAFETY,
STANDARDIZE TRAINING, AND SUPPORT THE LONG-TERM CAREER PROSPECTS OF THE AIRLINES’
PROFESSIONAL PILOTS.
THE MEMBER AIRLINE GROUPS ARE REPRESENTED WITHIN THE ALLIANCE BY THEIR RESPECTIVE ALPA
MASTER EXECUTIVE COUNCIL CHAIRMEN. CHAIRMAN CAPT. DAVID NIEUWENHUIS STATED, “AS A PILOT
GROUP ALLIANCE, WE ARE WELL POSITIONED TO PARTNER IN THE IMPROVEMENT OF SAFETY,
SECURITY AND TRAINING STANDARDS AT THE ALLIANCE AIRLINES. PROFESSIONAL PILOT
INVOLVEMENT IS CRUCIAL TO REALIZING HIGHER STANDARDS AND INCREASING PUBLIC TRUST.”
FOUNDED IN 1931, ALPA REPRESENTS 54,000 PILOTS AT 36 AIRLINES IN THE U.S. AND CANADA. ALPA
REPRESENTS OVER 5600 DELTA CONNECTION PILOTS COMBINED AT ASA, COMAIR, COMPASS, MESABA
AND PINNACLE. VISIT THE ALPA WEBSITE AT Air Line Pilots Association, International.
SOURCE: ALPA
DCPA SPOKESPERSON: CAPT. DAVID NIEUWENHUIS, ASA MEC CHAIRMAN, 703-481-5566
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