Would that not be just transitioning guys to the ER category? I know they've been holding off on that for awhile. I can't imagine why they would pull out 400 767 guys otherwise. :confused:

I can't say I "wasted" the last 20 minutes, but somehow they just disappeared without my realizing it. :D

RK,

What is there to get excited about? The last three times I have moved back or stayed about the same in LAX. Then again our union seems to have no problem with DAL treating us as second class citizens:

Alaska Code share - Special carve outs for LAX/SEA - no worries.
60% of the bid package - 4 day trips paying between 17 and 20 hours with red-eyes - no worries.

Could both of these possibly be related?????

I can imagine the outrage if DALPA and DAL agreed to a special carve out to have Jet Blue feed JFK or AIRTRAN feed ATL at a QOL cost to the pilots based there. Why is LAX any different?

Oh thats right - we are an east coast airline and I should just be happy not to have to commute to ATL.

Scoop

Moak was a leader but "RJs are good for us" was not the Direction we needed to go. It did get him the lead ALPA job so we learned what that was all about.

LOT 767 Gear Up Incident:

I’m glad there are folks like me out there analyzing and trying to solve this LOT 767 gear up mystery. From everything I can logically put together, it certainly looks like they “screwed the pooch.” The pieces of this puzzle just don’t add up. I really hope I am wrong. As a 767 Captain, not only do I have a vested interest in this incident, I feel I have somewhat of a duty to get to the cause of this mishap. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I like to learn from other’s mistakes so I don’t repeat them. Ha Earlier in my attempts at solving this mystery, I suggested that there might be a CB associated with a hydraulic [pressure release] valve which may inhibit the gear from coming down, but I just threw that out there as a shot in the dark. I don't even know if there is such a valve. The existence of this possible valve should not be confused with the confirmed electrically held open shuttle valve which closes and prevents the gear from extending with a complete loss of electrical power. I believe this would be a different animal all together. Even if such a valve and such a circuit breaker do exist, I still don't buy this theory. This is why. After takeoff, we place the gear handle from UP to OFF to shut off the valve supplying hydraulic UP pressure and then also release pressure from the system. At that point, the gear basically rests against the up locks and gear doors with no further UP pressure being applied. So even with this valve supposedly closed and not allowing fluid movement, if the ALTERNATE GEAR EXTENSION system switch was activated with no UP pressure in the system, wouldn’t we at least see the gear doors begin to open? With absolutely no center system hydraulic pressure and all of the gear and gear door up locks electrically retracted by the ALTERNATE GEAR EXTENSION system, I find it difficult to believe that even with trapped system fluid, that the gear would not have at least fallen out of the well at all. The gear and gear doors on that LOT 767 looked like they were sealed tight. I’m hoping that these guys are heroes, but my 36 years of flying and my 29 years as an A&P tell me they “screwed the pooch.” I hope I’m wrong. Very wrong. Media perceived heroes like Sully make us ALL look bigger than life; a good thing. Media perceived dirt bags like the NW crew that over shot MSP make us all look really bad. Remember, “It’s better to look good, than to feel good.” Billy Crystal.

P.S. Is it just me, or is anyone wondering why this Heroic Award Winning Crew:

1] Chose to continue to destination with the failure of the most critical hydraulic system on the aircraft? Time airborne is questionable here. Hot date in Warsaw perhaps?
2] Thought and stated that after the center hydraulic system failed that they knew that they would be unable to lower the gear upon reaching their destination? They seemed to immediately and falsely think that a center hydraulic system failure would inhibit lowering the landing gear. Only a complete electrical failure will inhibit the lowering of the landing gear on a 767. A failure of the center system will not inhibit lowering the landing gear. So why did they anticipate a gear up landing? Perhaps unfamiliarity with 767 systems??? Most knowledgeable 767 crews would have just anticipated a gear down landing using the ALTERNATE GEAR EXTENSION system.
3] Assume that the ALTERNATE GEAR EXTENSION system was not going to function properly? Perhaps they weren’t familiar with the system or didn’t even know it had this system?

These are stretches, but until the real cause is revealed, we can only speculate. What say you?

Nope. From FAA passenger enplanement statistics for the 5 LA Basin airports (LAX, SNA, BUR, LGB, ONT) combined:

Airline 2008 2010
Delta 3,917,308 3,900,127
Alaska 2,220,377 1,960,141

So we carried 17000 fewer pax and they carried 260,000 fewer since we started codesharing with them.

Oh, in case you didn't notice, the Seattle pilot base (which has way more codeshare exposure) has doubled in size. Maybe you can come to ATL and enjoy some of those nice UIO and GYE 3 days. :D

Did you hear that straight from an ATL CP? Didn't think so.

Why do folks get so wrapped up in rumors?

You description is one that is fairly accurate of yours truly. Would I vote for DPA today, right before negotiations? Sorry, but no. Will I if I'm even slightly dissatisfied by the final product when negotiations are said and done? In a heart beat. Better get this right, ALPA, because I have a feeling I'll have a lot of company if things don't go well. And by "well" I don't mean RA's definition of "acceptable."

I think what happened is somewhat simple. They had the center failure. They made a questionable decision to continue on to Warsaw. They felt that they would use the alternate systems and a normal landing would be made. The arrived there and used the alternate flap extension for the flaps. They then tried to extend the gear with the alternate system and it failed. It is a simple mechanical system. There are a lot of reasons it could have failed. A short in the switch on the panel would take the entire system out. The interval to check the system I understand can be every 3 years.
The fact they knew to use the alternate system for the flaps tells me they knew how the backups systems work. I think they were surprised when the gear did not extend.

Delta has customer service folks driving around High Value Customers in brand new Porsches:

Planelopnik stories - Jalopnik

That sure beats the Ford Explorers they were using (although I like Ford Explorers better than 6,000lb Porsche Sports SUV's :rolleyes: My first 911 weighed in at about 2,300 pounds, or about what a Miata weighs today.