Originally Posted by gloopy

Yeah I think I fat fingered it on my phone calculator. Either way someone else mentioned furloughs and I was responding to them that it didn't seem reasonable from this bid (even if we were over by 85, they're not going to furlough that amount unless they get really hostile).

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob

He didn't want to seem too ostentatious.

Originally Posted by Scoop

I don't know the answer to that question but look at past practice - When there was an exodus of 777 Pilots the company screamed they needed relief and DALPA granted it, in the form of PeRPs. This may have been the least crappy option, and the right thing to do at the time........But DALPA appears not to have learned anything.

DALPA should be going on record now, today, yesterday, in print telling the company about the coming flood of retirements and proposing some mitigation strategies. And most importantly DALPA should make it 100% clear that there will be no relief granted in this regard period.

There is no mystery, this is all predictable and can and should be planned for. DAL can start the hiring earlier and get the cream of the crop or can be late to the game and get FDX, SWA, UCAL, JBLU UPS etc. leftovers and rejects.

Another thing - Every guy who retires from the top at 12th year pay with 5 weeks of vacation enables a first year pay new hire with minimal vacation and probably less sick leave medical issues. It is not a direct replacement because the 12th year maxed out guy will most likely be replaced by another 12th year maxed out guy but this will eventually require more new hires and may help mitigate any costs of a planned and structured retirement program.

IF DALPA and DAL really had their **** together they would come up with a planned retirement program - sweetening the retirement for say 200 guys a year enabling 200 new hires a year allowing us to ease into the hiring phase smoothly. It may not be cost neutral but at least it would show some strategic planning and thinking.

Or DAL can wait until we are going to be short and paint ourselves into a corner where our options are give relief (SCOPE/PEPRS/CODESHARE/JVs) or certain doom and parking aircraft etc. We have seen this show before.

Scoop

Originally Posted by tsquare

Maybe I do have some preconceptions about SWA, but the fact remains that they have been beneficiaries of a company that stayed within it's original model, and thus the scope restrictions that they got (before deregulation) have never been in any jeopardy. This merger proved that that may no longer be the case. Especially if management wants continued growth. I can't see management allowing their hands to be tied in this manner going forward, but ya never know. Maybe SWAPA will tell them to pack sand, and go on strike..

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

What I think we all need to understand is that despite that we are (in my opinion) the best and most experienced pilot group on the planet, our management wants to use us ONLY as a last resort. We get flying ONLY after DCI is maxed out, and the JV's are up against the maximum imbalance possible. Then, as a last resort, Delta management will use us. It's sad and puzzling, but that's where we are.

Carl

Originally Posted by hoserpilot

Wow, I never thought of it this way. I agree. Worldwide whipsaw ability = managements best wet dream.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

The difference between our management and SWA management is that SWA management wants their pilots as a first choice, our management wants us a last choice. AirTran had outsourcing via some commuter (I forget who). After the merger, SWA was in violation of the SWAPA scope section. SWA management quickly agreed to cancel the AirTran outsourcing. Not because SWAPA negotiators put a gun to management's head, but because SWA management sees their pilots as the first and ONLY choice to do any flying with the Southwest brand.

Man...I wonder what that would feel like?

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

What I think we all need to understand is that despite that we are (in my opinion) the best and most experienced pilot group on the planet, our management wants to use us ONLY as a last resort. We get flying ONLY after DCI is maxed out, and the JV's are up against the maximum imbalance possible. Then, as a last resort, Delta management will use us. It's sad and puzzling, but that's where we are.

Carl

Originally Posted by Columbia

Wrong, Carl. SWA management has always seen their pilots as a means to an end. Their schtick has been for years to keep the carrot out in front (i.e. non-legacy, cool leather jacket, young, hip FAs, stock options, continual pay raises, continued growth). Because of all of this, and the fact that the SWA model hasn't required RJs, SWA pilots are now like, "Wow-look at me. I have this good contract and "hate" outsourcing. Wheeeeeeeeeee.............