Well, that's all dandy as long as ALPAs floor for this plan is at a minimum SWA W-2s for our 737s. When we start talkIng about pay raises well above the 42% it will take to achieve that, then I will concern myself with your detailed numbers. Are you secretly trying to tell me you think the opener is going to be in the 60% range? I'm secretly trying to tell you DPA will be at the helm within 24 months. Shhhhh..... Don't tell anyone in Herndon.

 

Dalpa's opener will be constructed off the contract survey. I can tell you right now it wont be for more then 42 percent. I doubt it will be even close to that number. That is based on asking pilots I fly with and friends what they put on the survey and having been told the results of a prior phone survey.
If we do open for something like that what do you think will be the result. Do you think management will think wow the pilots are tough we better give them that or do you perhaps think management will simply enjoy the protection of the RLA and kick back for a 5 or 6 years of us working under the current contract. Do you think we would have a different outcome then American? If so what do you base that on? Do you know the average length of negotiations that end up under the NMRB and the mediation process?

 

Sailingfun,
So, do you think we'll "open" with a position that places our 737 rates below our competition that parks across the ramp from us? Is that not a loosing proposition from the get-go?

Respectfully,
Chuck416

 

While you are feeling so energetic on the key board today Sailing, why don't you address this as well. it pertains to your claim that a Delta pilot averages 87 hours per month:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfun


As I mentioned the average pilot at Delta credits about 87 hours a month.


What I am saying is that you lose all credibility when you make statements like THE AVERAGE SW COPILOT MAKES WAY MORE THEN THE AVERAGE DELTA CAPTAIN.


There is no way the average pilot credits 87 hours of pay per month.

None.

Show your math. Additionally, if your going to cite ALPA's look back numbers that they base their compensation on, better yet.... show the math.

You, Sailing, lose just as much if not more credibility when you make such reckless and audacious statements as you have... 87 hrs a month!

 

Like I have said before, ALPA will cease to exist at Delta as a result of their own actions.

Its not a stretch to think that the DPA, with 4000 cards, will take over the reins if there is any LESS than SWA in the TA based on 88 rates scaled up.

I don't care for how they account for it.

It could be a $25 per hour per diem along with stock grants each year. What ever makes "Wall Street" happy. But the compensation MUST be there.

 

I don't recall how many cards are needed to force a vote. I was under the impression that it was at or around 6000.

Sailing, from my observations at work with crew and jumpseaters, I would say that a third are staunch ALPA supporters. The other third are DPA supporters. The last third are all precarious fence sitters.

They are waiting for the last straw.

For some, its FPL and the mismanagement of the resolutions addressing it.

Others, its scope and JV's. For most though, it is the next contract. A sub par opener or TA will likely result in the replacing of DALPA.

Additionally, not one person in a crew lounge, jumpseat, or other crew members has ever stated that they are expecting or desire less than SWA adjusted.

Where do you get your numbers from? Perhaps sitting around at lunch with the guys at 1457 Virginia Avenue. You know, The Happy Budda?

 

I simply called and asked how much credit the average Delta pilots gets. You can call crew planning and get the numbers or ask your CP's office. The Caps at Delta average 79 hours a year. You can pick up the cap plus 15. I have been in big and small categories and junior and senior. There is almost always time to pick up to fly to what you want. In 25 years the only situation where I could not fly what I wanted was in a category that was closing. I suspect that applies at the moment to the DC9.
Your total pay in a category is a combination of what you fly, vacation pay, reroute pay, training pay, Greenslip Pay, Assignment Pay ect...
I know lots of pilots who always average over 100. I flew 14 days last DEC and credited 186 hours of pay. I am very comfortable with the 87 hour number per month as a average. Not only is it the number I was given on the phone its the number used as mentioned in flight pay loss calculations last year. Some pilots will be less then that such as a reserve guy in a overmanned category and some will be quite a bit more then that number. Some will be way more then that number.
Lineholder who flies 80 hours average 960
Vacation using 4 weeks 84 hours
training pay 15 hours
one reroute pay event a year 15 hours
2 GS or assignments a years 15 hour trips 60 hours

The above example averages 94 hours a month and is not the least bit unusual. We have a bunch of pilots who will credit way above those amounts. In fact when the 2011 total hours come out the numbers I suspect will be up from 87 average not down. There were a tremendous amount of GS flown both last winter and summer. Normally GS are a mostly summer event. In my category you could essentially fly a GS every month regardless of seniority from last Jan through Aug.
As I mentioned there will be guys who credit way less then 87. A reserve pilot who is in a over manned category is a example. For each guy like that however there is a guy who will credit way more.
Again simply call and ask. Its kind of like the SW pay situation. I post numbers compiled by MIT off the actual airline financial reports and they are called bogus by pilots who produce no numbers themselves. In 2010 the average Delta pilot earned 142,000 in total earnings. 87X12 is 1044 hours. 142,000 divided by 142,000 is 136 dollars an hour. A quick glance at the pay tables suggest that based on fleet size the average copilot pay in 2010 was around 115 a hour and Captains around 162 or so. Devide that out and you get 138 dollars a hour. Those are 12 year rates so the number has to be adjusted down for pilots under 12 years. Probably end up at about 136 a hour which ends up at 87 hours a month. Now show me your math.

 

No I don't think we will open for less then SW. I think most pilots want a contract that puts us in their compensation rate without giving up concessions in other areas to come down to their manning rate.
That will put our overall pilot block hour costs well above SW. Its also about the minimum I am willing to take.

 

"There you go again." -Ronald Reagan

WHY is DALPA parroting the company's line???

DPA....DPA....DPA

 

If you want to debate the dpa, take it to that thread. Final warning.