That was the case (18 months actually) but my question is if that has changed since Delta decided not to hire in 2012 - 2013. Three years is the sweet spot for a lot of migrant workers (who happen to fly airplanes).

Wonder if management is gaming the production balance in the AF/KLM JV and planning on renegotiating it rather than ever being in compliance?

Sailing never answered the question, "Do you consider outsourcing an abrogation of seniority?" Like to know his opinion.

Same problem here. I would be gone if they offer 3-5 yr LOAs. I've been sitting on my butt not flying for around two months now. Why can't the company cut me loose for few years?

Look, I'm just jerking your chain, but maybe there is a lesson here:

Massive pay sacrifices have been made.
What's a little harder to see is that seniority sacrifices have been made as well.

Prior to 2000 Delta was an airline growing organically.
1980-1990 the fleet nearly doubled in size
1990-2000 the fleet grew in execs of 50%

During those years the vast majority of aircraft had a 3-man crew

Now with exception of the long-haul fleet, we are down to 2-man crews and the fleet is shrinking.As a result the opportunities for seniority advancement have reduced drastically.

There are Delta pilots hired just a few years after you that can't hold captain, relegated to FO pay, so they are making 40% less than you.

Capacity constraint works for the company. If the fleet size will stay flat or further reduce in the upcoming years. If we replace 75 and 76 with 737 aircraft even with all upcoming retirement we will all see seniority inflation.

I'm not advocating forcing the company to hire more pilots just for the heck of it, but this is an issue that is brewing and will need to be addressed.

Seniority determines pay and just a captain upgrade will be an instant 40% raise for some of our pilot population that has been in limbo for the past 15 years.

You are lucky to hold captain. Good timing placed you on the list that lets you be 320A, but Luck shouldn't have anything to do with seniority progression...

Cheers
George

Yes you can. Not sure what LOA covered it but it's in the current FOM now. 4.1.2


Deviations from Scheduled Deadhead

Deviations from Scheduled Deadhead

A pilot who utilizes an off-rotation deadhead to travel from a domestic airport or an airport in the Hawaiian Islands (other than his base) in the vicinity of his permanent residence at the beginning of a rotation will be provided positive space on-line transportation if: • Company Business travel can be booked in TravelNet without overbooking • the routing does not pass through the pilot's base • the routing does not exceed the number of deadhead segments originally scheduled • the routing is scheduled to arrive at a reasonable time before his required report • the routing provides for a subsequent flight that is scheduled to arrive at a reasonable time before his required report • A reserve pilot must receive permission from Crew Scheduling to deviate at the beginning of a rotation.

Where are people seeing the PS checks? I haven't seen squat.

Thanks.

They are available under the "view my paycheck" link on deltanet

George said: "You are lucky to hold captain. Good timing placed you on the list that lets you be 320A, but Luck shouldn't have anything to do with seniority progression...

Cheers
George "



George, I might be misunderstanding what you are saying here, but in my experience, 95% of our seniority seems to be pure luck. This is primarily due to the boom-bust hiring cycles which follow the boom-bust cycles of the economy. Neither you or I have any control over any of it, we filled out our applications, sent them in, went to the interivews and...got hired. We had zero control over how many additional pilots the company hired, or mergers, or SLI's.

This carreer has always been about luck and timing, there's not a whole lot we had to do with it or can do to control it.

Oh, and Delta has almost -never- grown organically. Many years ago they merged with C+S, then with North East, then with Western, then with Pan Am, then with NW, who had already merged with Republic and...?

My point is, any Pilot's Career Track is more about luck, and timing, than skill.

What is this - short attention span theatre? No part of my post said that you were OK with outsourcing. Read it again if you don't believe me. I quoted your exact words from a post on another thread. Here it is again for your review...emphasis mine:

Now do you see where on Earth I got the idea that you said we would shrink like you cannot believe if we ever got SWA's scope clause?

No leap of logic required tsquare. Only a leap to the thread where you made the statement you made. If you don't like what you wrote, then edit it. But don't make the blatantly false claim that I said you were OK with outsourcing.

Pay attention.

Carl

Bar you know the answer to that one....1.P.4. Note 2.
There is no need to renegotiate. Delta will add a few flights back in 2013.
With the reduced transatlantic capacity in the JV the percent gain to reach nearly 50% for 12 months won't amount to anything near the additional 6-7 RT flights that were expected above the full schedule...

example:

47 RT DAL
53 RT AFKLM/AZ
100 RT total

Negotiate for 50/50 balance, expect to add 6-7 RT flights

54 RT DAL (gained the expected 6-7 RT)
54 RT AFKLM/AZ (gained 1 RT)

But before that happens, capacity is cut 15%

40 RT DAL
45 RT AFKLM/AZ
85 RT Total (-15%)

To get near a 50% balance of 85 we only have to add 2 flights...

42 RT DAL (better than 48.5%)
43 RT AFKLM/AZ
85 Total

To use the Note two i.e. 49.75% production balance from April to March, and reset the measurement period the company in the above example would only have to add 3 flights. far below the "expected" 6-7 RT flights.

In reality the picture looks like this for the next year:

39 DAL
46 AFKLM/AZ
85 Total

Cheers
George

I thought about that, but back in 1995 we had the 60% FAE defined benefit retirement plan. Delta made 100% of the contributions to that plan. (The one that was terminated in bankruptcy). We were limited to the Family Care Savings Plan.

So I would need to add to the 4 year 727 F/O rate as well to include Delta's funding for my future retirement. Additionally they made a 2% (IIRC) contribution to the Family Care Savings Plan which I didn't include in the 727 F/O rate.

So in summary: If I add the 14% retirement contribution Delta is making to my current rate I would need to add the 2% FCSP contribution and the amount Delta contributed to my DB plan back in 1995. I have no way of knowing what that was so I called them a "wash".