Delta brought some very good legal representation to the table, who accepted liability on behalf of the Company. By accepting responsibility, that argument ceased and the attorneys moved on to damages.

Only a very few Plaintiff attorneys understand our industry and understand the relevance of what that tape indicates. They never had the chance to go that far... . Delta's Counsel avoided a compensatory case becoming potentially a punitive case.*

It takes a lot of authority (between half a billion and a billion) to make that call. We employed a similar strategy in the ASA losses.

* Airline management fundamentally misunderstands the Courts. When our language speakers get on the PA and announce "We are flying into severe turbulence" when we announce "We're awarding flying to the best of the worst" ... these statements would be indefensible in front of a jury. It is very common. Look at the mess American got into on the Cali case.

Looks like we'll be below 12,000 very shortly.

What pathetic BS. This DALPA talking point is over a year old. Blame the in-house union drive for DALPA producing a weak contract.

Management already smells blood in the water with people like you who are only looking for a justification to vote YES to another industry lagging contract, and a talking point that somehow "proves" it's better than anything SWAPA has. Management know they have a lot just like you tsquare. What do you think that rocking chair was for?

Absolutely. A strong plan B is absolutely vital.

Yeah, it's always best to have no plan B. It makes decision making so much easier.

Carl

OK.. fair enough. Then please enlighten me as to some kind of timeline.

April 1. Openers exchanged. Pilots see these maybe a month later.. but for the sake of discussion, let's say it's instantaneous. Guys like you are ****ed. The donut drive begins in full.. Guys are signing up... Realistically though, you don't think that that drive would be instantaneous.. so let's say it takes a couple of months. (I think that is more than generous because there are many guys out there that don't read these forums.. and really don't care who the representation is other than they want to be fair and, well, representative. So that then puts us into July. Fair enough?

July 1. There is a vote on donuts. They win. Contract negotiations come to a halt. Company ecstatic. Dounts have to get the passdown from the outgoing group. That would probably take several months... I would say that realistically we wouldn't have new representation before the end of the year.

Jan 1, 2013. Amendable date comes and goes. Company ecstatic. Donut shop surveys the group because DALPA guys ran the shredder full time getting rid of surveys and letters to the MEC, etc etc etc... Company ecstatic, we are working for 2012 rates...

Feb 1. Donut surveys come out.. they give us a month to complete and digest information.

March 1 Professional negotiators hired, brought up to speed, and company contacted.

July1. First sit down with company. Donuts tell the company that we want C2K + or no deal. Company says, "ain't happening" Donuts say "see ya on the picket line" Company ecstatic.. They know that whoever is in the WH at the time will never allow that so they continue to show up to the negotiations meeting that the Donuts are now boycotting, and the NMB knows this.

August 1 2014. Still no deal. Company getting pilot wages for 2012 rates. Company decides to sue Donut shop. Since it is an independent union, there is no insurance against any such kind of lawsuit, and membership is assessed individually. (Unlike the TWA lawsuit). Company ecstatic.

Hmmmmm Yup, I see this as a much better deal. There is no divisiveness going on here.. naaaaaah

Or do you see this going down another way?

The problem is that DALPA will not release the opener. We'll only see a TA to vote on later. And that's only if DALPA doesn't agree to a short term extension with a pay bump.

Carl

First of all, you have no idea what DALPA will be able to deliver, and you have even less idea what the donuts will be able to deliver. And I don't blame anybody but the membership on a weak contract. IF it is weak and it gets voted in, it is Our own fault. But the donut arguments are are all pie in the sky. Hopey changey and all that. Big talk.

"Management smells blood in the water..." (for YOUR reasons) That's rich. You really believe that gar-bage don't you?

I have a plan B homey. I have been debt free for a long time, and I have a strike fund that will last a long time. Probably better than yours. Doesn't matter though, the point of a strike is moot.. unless of course we get donuts, because as we all know, the company and the gubbamint trembles in fear at their awesomeness.

Give whoever made the questions on the recurrent cd some credit, at least they have a sense of humor. Maybe it was 80?

Sexual harassment? Well, it's okay if it's accurate.

Evacuation flow? Evacuate, Stop, Shutdown and Configure or something along those lines.

How do you know this? You gonna eat crow if it DOES get released? OR are you gonna find something else to be critical and divisive to cry about? Nevermind, I know the answer to that.

And one more thing... What if the opener that DOES get released isn't what Carl thinks is sufficient? Buuuuut, it represents the desires of the pilot group.. We all know that you think the whale should only work on sunny Wednesdays and pay $1000/hour, but what if the pilot group said.. in the surveys.. that the whale and the 7ER should pay the same? (Read banded payrates)? How are you going to then call for the head of DALPA? You might get to see the opener, but you have little idea of what goes into that opener too. So maybe the surveys SHOULD be released.. what would say if they are, and you don't have as much leverage as you think?

Selling off/parking assets and NOT replacing them is liquidation. You say we're only liquidating so we can participate in future mergers. Why? So we can liquidate some more...and call it synergy??

That of course means nothing when you lease the majority of your aircraft. But that was funny CEO spin though.

Carl

I don't know T. I can't predict a timeline for ALPA or DPA. I know this is my third section 6 with three different airlines and they are all different. If DPA gets enough cards for a vote then I will think long and hard and make a decision (which means ask the wife). But seriously, I don't know the answer right now.