Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-24-2012 | 11:55 AM
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Was deadheading a few weeks ago and the guy sitting next to me was a pilot for Delta's private jet operation. Learned some interesting stuff. Apparently, they can live anywhere Delta or DCI flies and they will get positive spaced to and from where their jet is located. Anytime they get repositioned its positive space on Delta equipment.
02-24-2012 | 12:21 PM
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From: DAL
MUCH better than wading through 15 pages of pointless arguing about whether or not we'll see the opener like we had to over the last several days... The DALPA/DPA arguments just totally deflate this thread. If we had a "bringing the thread dowwwwwnnnn Penalty Box" then T, Carl, gearjerk, and scambo would be in it for last week! Except Carl seemed to be pretty reasonable, he just never stops replying no matter how silly the other guy's post.
I like your idea. Let's just stick our heads in the sand and hope for the best. I'm sure we'll get exactly what we demand using that technique.
02-24-2012 | 01:32 PM
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Not true ... The E175 / 900 is management's 100 seat jet and they have as many of them as we allow. It's trip costs are half of the MD88's. If we are going to upgauge markets like LGA, we need a jet that splits the 100% capacity gap between the CRJ900 and the MD88.
Lets correct your statement:
"Delta's MEC does not want a 100 seat jet on the property, for fear it will dilute the pay on larger airplanes by allowing management a better, smaller, choice to the MD88 sized jets. D-ALPA's partnership with management to outsource jobs and cross collateralize our pay requires outsourcing."
The made up conflict with Compass which made it necessary for the Delta MEC to boot them obviously was not created by management. The Delta MEC voted to divest those pilots. Of course this followed years of action which allowed more and more outsourcing, further diluting the negotiating power of ALPA pilots who flew those airplanes and lowering the floor on pilot pay and working conditions. Which was preceded by a made up seniority grab justification to keep ASA and Comair's small jet flying off the property.
The record is absolutely clear on the matter in the form of votes.
I am tired of being lied to about this issue. Management gets a pass since they don't have an obligation to their employees. ALPA doesn't get a pass. ALPA works for us, using our dues, and has a fiduciary duty to us.
Worst of all this scheme has rotted ALPA's core. ALPA can't be unified as long as half of its flying is done by someone outside the control of our Bargaining Agent ... so we water down unity to a form of mindless allegiance and cede our reason for existence; we cede our structural difference with the DPA. The DPA should not be on the property. The DPA should not win. The DPA will not be good for Delta pilots, but if we are going to model Contract 2012 on the last decade's outsourcing scheme, then you've handed them the keys to the place.
Lets correct your statement:
"Delta's MEC does not want a 100 seat jet on the property, for fear it will dilute the pay on larger airplanes by allowing management a better, smaller, choice to the MD88 sized jets. D-ALPA's partnership with management to outsource jobs and cross collateralize our pay requires outsourcing."
The made up conflict with Compass which made it necessary for the Delta MEC to boot them obviously was not created by management. The Delta MEC voted to divest those pilots. Of course this followed years of action which allowed more and more outsourcing, further diluting the negotiating power of ALPA pilots who flew those airplanes and lowering the floor on pilot pay and working conditions. Which was preceded by a made up seniority grab justification to keep ASA and Comair's small jet flying off the property.
The record is absolutely clear on the matter in the form of votes.
I am tired of being lied to about this issue. Management gets a pass since they don't have an obligation to their employees. ALPA doesn't get a pass. ALPA works for us, using our dues, and has a fiduciary duty to us.
Worst of all this scheme has rotted ALPA's core. ALPA can't be unified as long as half of its flying is done by someone outside the control of our Bargaining Agent ... so we water down unity to a form of mindless allegiance and cede our reason for existence; we cede our structural difference with the DPA. The DPA should not be on the property. The DPA should not win. The DPA will not be good for Delta pilots, but if we are going to model Contract 2012 on the last decade's outsourcing scheme, then you've handed them the keys to the place.
1. We have a pay rate already established for EMB-190/195, so why are you babbling on about diluting MD-88 pay rates? Delta doesn't buy the EMB-190 because the plane sucks.
2. Do you seriously consider even for a minute that ALPA has any input at all into the fleet purchases that Delta makes? This is and of itself is the most ludicrous accusation you have ever made.
3. Comair and ASA pilots were not merged with Delta because the companies were not merged. You know this fact, you know this is the reason there was no seniority integration and yet you continue to repeat the same lies over and over. Why? Please hammer this fact into your brain once and for all: Delta and Comair or ASA were never merged therefore there was no seniority integration.
4. Compass pilots work for a different airline and yet you want Delta pilots to negotiate their contract. If this doesn't sound insane to you then it should. Maybe the United MEC should negotiate our next contract or maybe Spirit.
5. You claim we have some partnership to permit outsourcing. The issue of more outsourcing was the last item negotiated at the last minute of the last day. This was the most difficult issue of the entire bankruptcy negotiation. Your characterization is insulting and false.
What is truly rotten to the core is how your self pity has taken you to abandon any source of decency or integrity and leads you to post this drivel. Sometimes you have a decent insight into the industry and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.
02-24-2012 | 02:04 PM
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I don't know if it is worth responding, because even when you are corrected on your facts, you continue to repeat falsehoods. It seems like you might be a more effective advocate if you would simply stick to the facts.
1. We have a pay rate already established for EMB-190/195, so why are you babbling on about diluting MD-88 pay rates? Delta doesn't buy the EMB-190 because the plane sucks.
2. Do you seriously consider even for a minute that ALPA has any input at all into the fleet purchases that Delta makes? This is and of itself is the most ludicrous accusation you have ever made.
3. Comair and ASA pilots were not merged with Delta because the companies were not merged. You know this fact, you know this is the reason there was no seniority integration and yet you continue to repeat the same lies over and over. Why? Please hammer this fact into your brain once and for all: Delta and Comair or ASA were never merged therefore there was no seniority integration.
4. Compass pilots work for a different airline and yet you want Delta pilots to negotiate their contract. If this doesn't sound insane to you then it should. Maybe the United MEC should negotiate our next contract or maybe Spirit.
5. You claim we have some partnership to permit outsourcing. The issue of more outsourcing was the last item negotiated at the last minute of the last day. This was the most difficult issue of the entire bankruptcy negotiation. Your characterization is insulting and false.
What is truly rotten to the core is how your self pity has taken you to abandon any source of decency or integrity and leads you to post this drivel. Sometimes you have a decent insight into the industry and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.
1. We have a pay rate already established for EMB-190/195, so why are you babbling on about diluting MD-88 pay rates? Delta doesn't buy the EMB-190 because the plane sucks.
2. Do you seriously consider even for a minute that ALPA has any input at all into the fleet purchases that Delta makes? This is and of itself is the most ludicrous accusation you have ever made.
3. Comair and ASA pilots were not merged with Delta because the companies were not merged. You know this fact, you know this is the reason there was no seniority integration and yet you continue to repeat the same lies over and over. Why? Please hammer this fact into your brain once and for all: Delta and Comair or ASA were never merged therefore there was no seniority integration.
4. Compass pilots work for a different airline and yet you want Delta pilots to negotiate their contract. If this doesn't sound insane to you then it should. Maybe the United MEC should negotiate our next contract or maybe Spirit.
5. You claim we have some partnership to permit outsourcing. The issue of more outsourcing was the last item negotiated at the last minute of the last day. This was the most difficult issue of the entire bankruptcy negotiation. Your characterization is insulting and false.
What is truly rotten to the core is how your self pity has taken you to abandon any source of decency or integrity and leads you to post this drivel. Sometimes you have a decent insight into the industry and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.
02-24-2012 | 02:55 PM
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From: AN124 FE
What is this supposed announcement on Monday?
02-24-2012 | 03:01 PM
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From: 7ERB
02-24-2012 | 03:02 PM
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I don't know if it is worth responding, because even when you are corrected on your facts, you continue to repeat falsehoods. It seems like you might be a more effective advocate if you would simply stick to the facts.
1. We have a pay rate already established for EMB-190/195, so why are you babbling on about diluting MD-88 pay rates? Delta doesn't buy the EMB-190 because the plane sucks.
2. Do you seriously consider even for a minute that ALPA has any input at all into the fleet purchases that Delta makes? This is and of itself is the most ludicrous accusation you have ever made.
3. Comair and ASA pilots were not merged with Delta because the companies were not merged. You know this fact, you know this is the reason there was no seniority integration and yet you continue to repeat the same lies over and over. Why? Please hammer this fact into your brain once and for all: Delta and Comair or ASA were never merged therefore there was no seniority integration.
4. Compass pilots work for a different airline and yet you want Delta pilots to negotiate their contract. If this doesn't sound insane to you then it should. Maybe the United MEC should negotiate our next contract or maybe Spirit.
5. You claim we have some partnership to permit outsourcing. The issue of more outsourcing was the last item negotiated at the last minute of the last day. This was the most difficult issue of the entire bankruptcy negotiation. Your characterization is insulting and false.
What is truly rotten to the core is how your self pity has taken you to abandon any source of decency or integrity and leads you to post this drivel. Sometimes you have a decent insight into the industry and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.
1. We have a pay rate already established for EMB-190/195, so why are you babbling on about diluting MD-88 pay rates? Delta doesn't buy the EMB-190 because the plane sucks.
2. Do you seriously consider even for a minute that ALPA has any input at all into the fleet purchases that Delta makes? This is and of itself is the most ludicrous accusation you have ever made.
3. Comair and ASA pilots were not merged with Delta because the companies were not merged. You know this fact, you know this is the reason there was no seniority integration and yet you continue to repeat the same lies over and over. Why? Please hammer this fact into your brain once and for all: Delta and Comair or ASA were never merged therefore there was no seniority integration.
4. Compass pilots work for a different airline and yet you want Delta pilots to negotiate their contract. If this doesn't sound insane to you then it should. Maybe the United MEC should negotiate our next contract or maybe Spirit.
5. You claim we have some partnership to permit outsourcing. The issue of more outsourcing was the last item negotiated at the last minute of the last day. This was the most difficult issue of the entire bankruptcy negotiation. Your characterization is insulting and false.
What is truly rotten to the core is how your self pity has taken you to abandon any source of decency or integrity and leads you to post this drivel. Sometimes you have a decent insight into the industry and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.
2. Yes, the fact Delta management has bought airplanes to maximize allowances under scope documents this assertion. The fact Air France management in a coordinated effort with Delta management has reallocated their heavy metal across the Delta network shows the effect of the temporary relaxation in our JV enforcement protocol.
3. How many Delta managers voted at the 2000 ALPA Board of Director's meeting? Best I can recall, the number was, zero. D-ALPA did not want a merger in any event and stated their opinion via their vote.
4. Your being silly. Spirit is no comparison. Compass operates exclusively Delta flying, was owned by Delta and the NWA MEC had little difficulty with the Compass contract. Ideally, if you approached this correctly, you would desire Compass pilots be Delta pilots and thus covered by the Delta PWA.
5. Chairman McClain explained the process well in NWA's ziplines. The NWA MEC was proud of the fact bargaining credits were received in exchange for scope relaxation. Their publications are sufficient to show how the "partnership" worked. The resulting scope language was pasted into our current PWA. In addition, I am sure you are aware that folks outside the Delta MEC have our negotiators' notes. Let me know if you would like to broaden our public debate with more documentation (I've not seen them and base my opinion as to what was in those documents on the basis of the testimony published during depositions which were briefly online).
At the end of the day, if you prefer to externalize our scope failures, fine. I'm not trying to embarrass any of the truly good folks who represent us. It is water over the dam. My only goal is to focus on better policy going forward and get ALPA to fight outsourcing like the poison it is.
As for your personal insult, I'm quite comfortable calling it what it is. It takes a bit of integrity and confidence to post something here and then show up at every LEC meeting, make resolutions and participate in the process knowing some in the room would as soon rip my head off as look my way. I grew up in a better Delta and a better ALPA and expect we will all achieve that high standard. So call me what you will. You should be know readers will judge what they read here based on the objective data they can correlate and results.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-24-2012 at 03:51 PM.
02-24-2012 | 03:11 PM
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From: "Prof" button manipulator
What is this supposed announcement on Monday?
02-24-2012 | 03:16 PM
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From: 7ERB
02-24-2012 | 03:26 PM
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I don't know if it is worth responding, because even when you are corrected on your facts, you continue to repeat falsehoods. It seems like you might be a more effective advocate if you would simply stick to the facts.
1. We have a pay rate already established for EMB-190/195, so why are you babbling on about diluting MD-88 pay rates? Delta doesn't buy the EMB-190 because the plane sucks.
2. Do you seriously consider even for a minute that ALPA has any input at all into the fleet purchases that Delta makes? This is and of itself is the most ludicrous accusation you have ever made.
3. Comair and ASA pilots were not merged with Delta because the companies were not merged. You know this fact, you know this is the reason there was no seniority integration and yet you continue to repeat the same lies over and over. Why? Please hammer this fact into your brain once and for all: Delta and Comair or ASA were never merged therefore there was no seniority integration.
4. Compass pilots work for a different airline and yet you want Delta pilots to negotiate their contract. If this doesn't sound insane to you then it should. Maybe the United MEC should negotiate our next contract or maybe Spirit.
5. You claim we have some partnership to permit outsourcing. The issue of more outsourcing was the last item negotiated at the last minute of the last day. This was the most difficult issue of the entire bankruptcy negotiation. Your characterization is insulting and false.
What is truly rotten to the core is how your self pity has taken you to abandon any source of decency or integrity and leads you to post this drivel. Sometimes you have a decent insight into the industry and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.
1. We have a pay rate already established for EMB-190/195, so why are you babbling on about diluting MD-88 pay rates? Delta doesn't buy the EMB-190 because the plane sucks.
2. Do you seriously consider even for a minute that ALPA has any input at all into the fleet purchases that Delta makes? This is and of itself is the most ludicrous accusation you have ever made.
3. Comair and ASA pilots were not merged with Delta because the companies were not merged. You know this fact, you know this is the reason there was no seniority integration and yet you continue to repeat the same lies over and over. Why? Please hammer this fact into your brain once and for all: Delta and Comair or ASA were never merged therefore there was no seniority integration.
4. Compass pilots work for a different airline and yet you want Delta pilots to negotiate their contract. If this doesn't sound insane to you then it should. Maybe the United MEC should negotiate our next contract or maybe Spirit.
5. You claim we have some partnership to permit outsourcing. The issue of more outsourcing was the last item negotiated at the last minute of the last day. This was the most difficult issue of the entire bankruptcy negotiation. Your characterization is insulting and false.
What is truly rotten to the core is how your self pity has taken you to abandon any source of decency or integrity and leads you to post this drivel. Sometimes you have a decent insight into the industry and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.
This just furthers my conviction that D-ALPA will eventually self-immolate. And you call yourselves leaders?
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