Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-24-2012 | 05:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: window seat
We need to move past this myth that we can't get a certain seat range back. We can and all it requires is pilot solidarity. It won't break the company either but if someone really wants to latch on to that false argument, then a B scale fixes that concern. B scales suck but are a million times better than outsourcing, which is a B scale anyway so there is zero moral high ground in claiming one is "preserving the profession" by outsourcing something at B scale rates instead of doing it ourselves.
02-24-2012 | 05:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 303
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From: C130
My strike fund, is fully funded. Frankly, I can't wait to give ALPA my strike authorization vote.
That is why Sailing's getting both barrels (before my first cup of coffee). If I am going to effectively hand ALPA my resignation letter (ie my entire Delta career) to be used as leverage the expectations that go with that level of responsibility are correspondingly high.
That is why Sailing's getting both barrels (before my first cup of coffee). If I am going to effectively hand ALPA my resignation letter (ie my entire Delta career) to be used as leverage the expectations that go with that level of responsibility are correspondingly high.
02-24-2012 | 05:55 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
My strike fund, is fully funded. Frankly, I can't wait to give ALPA my strike authorization vote.
That is why Sailing's getting both barrels (before my first cup of coffee). If I am going to effectively hand ALPA my resignation letter (ie my entire Delta career) to be used as leverage the expectations that go with that level of responsibility are correspondingly high.
That is why Sailing's getting both barrels (before my first cup of coffee). If I am going to effectively hand ALPA my resignation letter (ie my entire Delta career) to be used as leverage the expectations that go with that level of responsibility are correspondingly high.
You touch on a pretty foundational point here. A strike vote is a promisory resignation letter. Not something to be taken lightly by the employee, the union, or the employer. (Just a little union 101 for the retired military or other union unfamiliar among us).
Anyway, two back-to-back amazing posts for this time of day.
02-24-2012 | 06:08 AM
Sho me da money!
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From: B25, Left
02-24-2012 | 06:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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Not true ... The E175 / 900 is management's 100 seat jet and they have as many of them as we allow. It's trip costs are half of the MD88's. If we are going to upgauge markets like LGA, we need a jet that splits the 100% capacity gap between the CRJ900 and the MD88.
Lets correct your statement:
"Delta's MEC does not want a 100 seat jet on the property, for fear it will dilute the pay on larger airplanes by allowing management a better, smaller, choice to the MD88 sized jets. D-ALPA's partnership with management to outsource jobs and cross collateralize our pay requires outsourcing."
The made up conflict with Compass which made it necessary for the Delta MEC to boot them obviously was not created by management. The Delta MEC voted to divest those pilots. Of course this followed years of action which allowed more and more outsourcing, further diluting the negotiating power of ALPA pilots who flew those airplanes and lowering the floor on pilot pay and working conditions. Which was preceded by a made up seniority grab justification to keep ASA and Comair's small jet flying off the property.
The record is absolutely clear on the matter in the form of votes.
I am tired of being lied to about this issue. Management gets a pass since they don't have an obligation to their employees. ALPA doesn't get a pass. ALPA works for us, using our dues, and has a fiduciary duty to us.
Worst of all this scheme has rotted ALPA's core. ALPA can't be unified as long as half of its flying is done by someone outside the control of our Bargaining Agent ... so we water down unity to a form of mindless allegiance and cede our reason for existence; we cede our structural difference with the DPA. The DPA should not be on the property. The DPA should not win. The DPA will not be good for Delta pilots, but if we are going to model Contract 2012 on the last decade's outsourcing scheme, then you've handed them the keys to the place.
Lets correct your statement:
"Delta's MEC does not want a 100 seat jet on the property, for fear it will dilute the pay on larger airplanes by allowing management a better, smaller, choice to the MD88 sized jets. D-ALPA's partnership with management to outsource jobs and cross collateralize our pay requires outsourcing."
The made up conflict with Compass which made it necessary for the Delta MEC to boot them obviously was not created by management. The Delta MEC voted to divest those pilots. Of course this followed years of action which allowed more and more outsourcing, further diluting the negotiating power of ALPA pilots who flew those airplanes and lowering the floor on pilot pay and working conditions. Which was preceded by a made up seniority grab justification to keep ASA and Comair's small jet flying off the property.
The record is absolutely clear on the matter in the form of votes.
I am tired of being lied to about this issue. Management gets a pass since they don't have an obligation to their employees. ALPA doesn't get a pass. ALPA works for us, using our dues, and has a fiduciary duty to us.
Worst of all this scheme has rotted ALPA's core. ALPA can't be unified as long as half of its flying is done by someone outside the control of our Bargaining Agent ... so we water down unity to a form of mindless allegiance and cede our reason for existence; we cede our structural difference with the DPA. The DPA should not be on the property. The DPA should not win. The DPA will not be good for Delta pilots, but if we are going to model Contract 2012 on the last decade's outsourcing scheme, then you've handed them the keys to the place.
The question is will Alpha, Slow, Sailing (whose post with the worn out spin spawned Bucking's reponse) and the rest of the MEC Committee Chairs understand how serious the situation we/they are in and make a course adjustment now.
Last edited by TheManager; 02-24-2012 at 06:58 AM.
02-24-2012 | 06:47 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Light Chop
Not true ... The E175 / 900 is management's 100 seat jet and they have as many of them as we allow. It's trip costs are half of the MD88's. If we are going to upgauge markets like LGA, we need a jet that splits the 100% capacity gap between the CRJ900 and the MD88.
Lets correct your statement:
"Delta's MEC does not want a 100 seat jet on the property, for fear it will dilute the pay on larger airplanes by allowing management a better, smaller, choice to the MD88 sized jets. D-ALPA's partnership with management to outsource jobs and cross collateralize our pay requires outsourcing."
The made up conflict with Compass which made it necessary for the Delta MEC to boot them obviously was not created by management. The Delta MEC voted to divest those pilots. Of course this followed years of action which allowed more and more outsourcing, further diluting the negotiating power of ALPA pilots who flew those airplanes and lowering the floor on pilot pay and working conditions. Which was preceded by a made up seniority grab justification to keep ASA and Comair's small jet flying off the property.
The record is absolutely clear on the matter in the form of votes.
I am tired of being lied to about this issue. Management gets a pass since they don't have an obligation to their employees. ALPA doesn't get a pass. ALPA works for us, using our dues, and has a fiduciary duty to us.
Worst of all this scheme has rotted ALPA's core. ALPA can't be unified as long as half of its flying is done by someone outside the control of our Bargaining Agent ... so we water down unity to a form of mindless allegiance and cede our reason for existence; we cede our structural difference with the DPA. The DPA should not be on the property. The DPA should not win. The DPA will not be good for Delta pilots, but if we are going to model Contract 2012 on the last decade's outsourcing scheme, then you've handed them the keys to the place.
Lets correct your statement:
"Delta's MEC does not want a 100 seat jet on the property, for fear it will dilute the pay on larger airplanes by allowing management a better, smaller, choice to the MD88 sized jets. D-ALPA's partnership with management to outsource jobs and cross collateralize our pay requires outsourcing."
The made up conflict with Compass which made it necessary for the Delta MEC to boot them obviously was not created by management. The Delta MEC voted to divest those pilots. Of course this followed years of action which allowed more and more outsourcing, further diluting the negotiating power of ALPA pilots who flew those airplanes and lowering the floor on pilot pay and working conditions. Which was preceded by a made up seniority grab justification to keep ASA and Comair's small jet flying off the property.
The record is absolutely clear on the matter in the form of votes.
I am tired of being lied to about this issue. Management gets a pass since they don't have an obligation to their employees. ALPA doesn't get a pass. ALPA works for us, using our dues, and has a fiduciary duty to us.
Worst of all this scheme has rotted ALPA's core. ALPA can't be unified as long as half of its flying is done by someone outside the control of our Bargaining Agent ... so we water down unity to a form of mindless allegiance and cede our reason for existence; we cede our structural difference with the DPA. The DPA should not be on the property. The DPA should not win. The DPA will not be good for Delta pilots, but if we are going to model Contract 2012 on the last decade's outsourcing scheme, then you've handed them the keys to the place.
As to your last paragraph, what if the DPA went back and got Compass to vote them in under the same MEC?
Last edited by forgot to bid; 02-24-2012 at 07:18 AM.
02-24-2012 | 06:58 AM
Moderator
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From: B757/767
Any suggestions for NYC hotels that have good rates for commuters? Commuting into LGA tomorrow for a departure from JFK on Sunday. Don't know where to stay.
Thanks.
Thanks.
02-24-2012 | 07:00 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: No to large RJs
Not really. All we would have to "pay" are the lease payments...that we are already paying for 100% today. In many cases we are literally the cosigners and in quite a few cases ma DL actually owns the planes or leases them directly.
We need to move past this myth that we can't get a certain seat range back. We can and all it requires is pilot solidarity. It won't break the company either but if someone really wants to latch on to that false argument, then a B scale fixes that concern. B scales suck but are a million times better than outsourcing, which is a B scale anyway so there is zero moral high ground in claiming one is "preserving the profession" by outsourcing something at B scale rates instead of doing it ourselves.
We need to move past this myth that we can't get a certain seat range back. We can and all it requires is pilot solidarity. It won't break the company either but if someone really wants to latch on to that false argument, then a B scale fixes that concern. B scales suck but are a million times better than outsourcing, which is a B scale anyway so there is zero moral high ground in claiming one is "preserving the profession" by outsourcing something at B scale rates instead of doing it ourselves.
Thats why I laugh when guys defending ALPA post about unity, "you mean the kind of unity that outsources my captain seat!!, the kind of unity that was squandered after 9/11." The same pilots screaming unity are the ones that were saying back in c2k "you don't want to fly an RJ.......do ya?"
I think this is one of our last shots at recapture. We are at a tipping point. We have the leverage to take it back but I fear our pilots, being led by our association, have not made it a priority, which is why I want our representation replaced. I understand why they can't make it a priority (conflict of interest) which is why I want them off even more. They are not representing our interest plain and simple. While I feel we have a very smart group of pilots, we have been conditioned over the years by this association. If any other company was hired by anyone of us, for any kind of work to be performed and we had results similar to ALPA's over the last decade, they would be fired yesterday. Stockholm syndrome is the only logical human condition that comes to mind for our ALPA attachment.
I think you are right that a B scale would be much better than our current lot and is achievable but it first has to be a goal of our current bargaining agent.
I hate to continue to bring up the DPA/ALPA argument but it is at the center of recapturing scope.
02-24-2012 | 07:22 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Doing what you do, for less.
Smaller jets at mainline means more jets at mainline. That means the pilots already there will enjoy more seniority, more basing options, etc. It also means more captain positions... and those small jet captain positions probably pay better than those MD-80 F/O positions.
Plus it allows the airline to operate more efficiently instead of dealing with some outsourced carrier and the associated overhead costs. And it gives you more control of your product... Delta wants to give a good product right? They sure aren't doing it with a lot of those RJ operators.
There is absolutely no reason to not want any particular plane on the mainline list and anyone that tells you otherwise probably has an ulterior selfish motive.
Plus it allows the airline to operate more efficiently instead of dealing with some outsourced carrier and the associated overhead costs. And it gives you more control of your product... Delta wants to give a good product right? They sure aren't doing it with a lot of those RJ operators.
There is absolutely no reason to not want any particular plane on the mainline list and anyone that tells you otherwise probably has an ulterior selfish motive.
02-24-2012 | 07:28 AM
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From: 767A (Ret)
Still their plan?
I don't know management's ultimate goal with respect to scope, but let me offer this historical anecdote: Shortly after the Western merger was announced, we shared a van with a WAL crew. Their Captain said "Watch out for Grinstein. He thinks that 'mainline Delta' shouldn't operate anything smaller than a 757." Of course, we dismissed that idea as absurd -- but now I'm beginning to wonder....
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