Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-08-2012 | 06:02 PM
The Brown Dot +1
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From: 777B
You know I like the costa rica surf institute.
shameless shilling for the only pop-up ad I like on the website.
shameless shilling for the only pop-up ad I like on the website.
04-08-2012 | 06:04 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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04-08-2012 | 06:06 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
Honestly, the opener had a bunch of (vague) blurbs that I had included in my survey...no doubt someone was listening (to me)(at least they know what's good for them
).OBTW, the RAH thing is in our contract, just not in an enforceable way, or (maybe its just that) we will not be boat rockers, just rocking chair rockers.
04-08-2012 | 06:18 PM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Poodle Whisperer
I am pleased to see that the holding company provision is in there. In the case of RAH, it may be overcome by events, but at least it will protect us from having someone else pull those shenanagins.
Honestly, the opener had a bunch of (vague) blurbs that I had included in my survey...no doubt someone was listening (to me)(at least they know what's good for them).
OBTW, the RAH thing is in our contract, just not in an enforceable way, or (maybe its just that) we will not be boat rockers, just rocking chair rockers.
Honestly, the opener had a bunch of (vague) blurbs that I had included in my survey...no doubt someone was listening (to me)(at least they know what's good for them
).OBTW, the RAH thing is in our contract, just not in an enforceable way, or (maybe its just that) we will not be boat rockers, just rocking chair rockers.
It seems as though we will not be boat rockers with the RAH thing. The company doesn't want to see if we're rocking chair rockers either- I got to choose from a couch and a love seat!
It's been a long day and my brain is now shot. I had to bust out my bass guitar for 3 Easter services today, which involved a 6am wakup after being awoke by the alarm system going off at 4am. It's always totally worth it getting up to play... and hey, I got to try out my tritium night sights on my H&K, too.
Next time I'm thinking of going with a bit flashier looking bass to really bring the heat:
04-08-2012 | 06:29 PM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Hopefully a sign that negotiators are considering a number of fresh approaches to the issue.
I do take them at their word that they will improve Scope. I do understand there is a lot to do there, at both ends of the gauge spectrum. I can live with a "conceptual" opener. I just want "improve" to mean "improve".
But never mind the negotiators: I'm curious about Slowplay's vision. What do you think we should do with the DCI issue, Slowplay?
I do take them at their word that they will improve Scope. I do understand there is a lot to do there, at both ends of the gauge spectrum. I can live with a "conceptual" opener. I just want "improve" to mean "improve".
But never mind the negotiators: I'm curious about Slowplay's vision. What do you think we should do with the DCI issue, Slowplay?
I'm eagerly awaiting slowplay's reply as well.
04-08-2012 | 07:00 PM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: A-320A
I am pleased to see that the holding company provision is in there. In the case of RAH, it may be overcome by events, but at least it will protect us from having someone else pull those shenanagins.
Honestly, the opener had a bunch of (vague) blurbs that I had included in my survey...no doubt someone was listening (to me)(at least they know what's good for them).
OBTW, the RAH thing is in our contract, just not in an enforceable way, or (maybe its just that) we will not be boat rockers, just rocking chair rockers.
Honestly, the opener had a bunch of (vague) blurbs that I had included in my survey...no doubt someone was listening (to me)(at least they know what's good for them
).OBTW, the RAH thing is in our contract, just not in an enforceable way, or (maybe its just that) we will not be boat rockers, just rocking chair rockers.
The need for holding company protections is a lot larger than RJET.
04-08-2012 | 07:08 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams, 'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials,' December 1770
I'm all for a better way to run things. Show me one and convince me that it works. I'll be with you, and won't even throw rocks from the sidelines. Otherwise, I'll stick with the plan that has put more money in pilot pockets.
I'm all for a better way to run things. Show me one and convince me that it works. I'll be with you, and won't even throw rocks from the sidelines. Otherwise, I'll stick with the plan that has put more money in pilot pockets.
Ok. I am late to the last few days of this thread as I have been significantly distracted so forgive me if this has been suggested or covered before.
How about this then. Instead of "throwing rocks from the sidelines" anytime someone here posts suggestions, ideas, or attempts to produce numbers to back this idea exchange, why don't you actually step up and be an effective contributing member.
I.E., a leader. Scope is the paramount issue to a majority of the pilots here. This is particularly true that it is now pressuring us significantly on the DCI, Alaska, and JV level. Give us your ideas how to reclaim what we all see a a direct threat to our progression and careers.
Seriously. I am sure most everyone wants to read your ideas if you have any on what we need to reclaim, why we need to, and how to do it. I strongly believe this issue will make or break DALPA and ALPA if it is perceived that anything was sold out.... yet again.
Last edited by TheManager; 04-08-2012 at 07:19 PM.
04-08-2012 | 07:19 PM
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: MSP7ERB
Another guy from my new hire class has left Delta, hired by FedEx. Attrition from my 2010 class stands at 11%.
04-08-2012 | 07:31 PM
Moderator
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From: B757/767
04-08-2012 | 08:07 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Well, that's just not true. The problem with this situation is that if the facts point to a conclusion that doesn't match certain people's preconceived expectations, then you are accused of "managing expectations," or in other words "don't confuse me with the facts." Here is just a sample of the problems you might face in this analysis. Here are some sample pay rates all from the second year, with the exception of our probationary rate that is thrown in for reference only:
Industry average 76 seat F/O : $35.40
DL probationary pay..............: $58.59
DL 76 seat F/O.....................: $58.59
Industry average 76 seat CA..: $64.60
DL MD-88 F/O......................: $84.50
DL A-320 F/O.......................: $86.46
DL 737 F/O..........................: $89.68
DL 76 Seat CA.....................: $107.71
The average hourly cost for second year pay at regionals is $100.00 per hour for the whole crew. At DL pay it is $166.30. That is pay only. Factor in 14% DC, work rules, disability, and the rest and you can see where easily our pilot costs are almost double the regionals. That is before we get whatever pay raise is your "Personal Minimum" in the ongoing negotiations. Right now the top of scale rates for 76 seat F/O's is about 30% below our probationary pay.
This doesn't imply any answer to any question. It is just the statement that this hasn't been studied is just completely false.
I gave two year rates, but this disparity exists all throughout the longevity steps. The problems it can generate cascade down in many different ways, but I am already going to be firebombed for "managing expectations" so I will just quit while I am behind. Just imagine a career path for a pilot that comes in at mainline narrowbody first officer and one that comes in at industry standard 76 seat wages. Show me those career paths and how a pilot in each path has equal pay over their first five years. The problems are incredibly complex.
By the way, all of this information is available to anyone that would take a couple of hours to do the research. Doing that work might be a better path to making an informed decision.
Industry average 76 seat F/O : $35.40
DL probationary pay..............: $58.59
DL 76 seat F/O.....................: $58.59
Industry average 76 seat CA..: $64.60
DL MD-88 F/O......................: $84.50
DL A-320 F/O.......................: $86.46
DL 737 F/O..........................: $89.68
DL 76 Seat CA.....................: $107.71
The average hourly cost for second year pay at regionals is $100.00 per hour for the whole crew. At DL pay it is $166.30. That is pay only. Factor in 14% DC, work rules, disability, and the rest and you can see where easily our pilot costs are almost double the regionals. That is before we get whatever pay raise is your "Personal Minimum" in the ongoing negotiations. Right now the top of scale rates for 76 seat F/O's is about 30% below our probationary pay.
This doesn't imply any answer to any question. It is just the statement that this hasn't been studied is just completely false.
I gave two year rates, but this disparity exists all throughout the longevity steps. The problems it can generate cascade down in many different ways, but I am already going to be firebombed for "managing expectations" so I will just quit while I am behind. Just imagine a career path for a pilot that comes in at mainline narrowbody first officer and one that comes in at industry standard 76 seat wages. Show me those career paths and how a pilot in each path has equal pay over their first five years. The problems are incredibly complex.
By the way, all of this information is available to anyone that would take a couple of hours to do the research. Doing that work might be a better path to making an informed decision.
Man, 2 years to RJ Captain is the average now?
BTW I didn't adjust those numbers for the size of the respective fleets. For instance, just because Comair is below $64/hr for so long doesn't mean that's the average as Comair only makes up 11% of the flying.
The largest carrier is Pinnacle 32%, ExpressJet 24%, Skywest 16%, Comair 11%, Compass 7%, Republic's Shuttle America 5%, Republic's Chautauqua 4%, GoJet 2%. And if I had more time I'd multiply their average pilots per plane by the number of 50 and 76 seaters.
Damn. That's pretty good.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 04-08-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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