Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-09-2012 | 07:42 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Not true.
Both are subject to United States law, specifically the Railway Labor Act, as administered by the National Mediation Board. If management does not want a merger one can be forced by the filing of a Single Carrier Petition with the NMB. If successful, the seniority lists become one, as a matter of law.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...XepQqXGbh5BMMA
In the matter of the merger of Delta and NWA, ALPA filed a Single Carrier Petition and won
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2009/36n017.pdf
You're a smart guy. The law is clear. Why?
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 04-09-2012 at 07:57 AM.
04-09-2012 | 07:44 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
The absolute authority of the US Government.
04-09-2012 | 07:46 AM
Sho me da money!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
From: B25, Left
Can't really blame him. For a junior pilot, the cost of displacement and commuting to NYC equates to about a $5000 a year pay cut when considering crashpad, transportation, and food expenses. Combine that with three backward AE's and the prospect of drawn out contract negotiations, and FedEx looks like the promised land.
Personally, I'm here for the duration, but I can certainly understand the thought process.
Personally, I'm here for the duration, but I can certainly understand the thought process.
Just sayin.
04-09-2012 | 07:47 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Sink r8, be careful what you ask for! Remember, Express was composed of formerly MAINLINE 737-200's, that we then took a huge PAY CUT, to keep, only because Mo'Ron threatened to sell them, just like he did the DC9's in 1993. So, yeah, we kept the airframes, but at a huge pay cut and a two year lock on if you bid Capt. on it.
Meanwhile, all those Mainline 737-200 Captains and F/O's, in CVG, ATL and DFW, were DISPLACED off of it, as it was put into Express in MCO. I was just about to bid Capt. on the 737 in CVG when that all went down, so I remember it well, and how I moved backwards in the right seat of the MD 11 for the next several years, as with every displacement bid those former 737 Capt.s come onto the right seat of the MD 11.
So if tomorrow, Richard says, "Hey, we want to start a new, Low Cost Airline in Orlando, and we are going to use our MD 88's and we are going to pay the Capt.s $100/hr..."
Would you (any of you) vote yes to that?
That's about what happened with Express and POS 96, which I voted NO to.
Meanwhile, all those Mainline 737-200 Captains and F/O's, in CVG, ATL and DFW, were DISPLACED off of it, as it was put into Express in MCO. I was just about to bid Capt. on the 737 in CVG when that all went down, so I remember it well, and how I moved backwards in the right seat of the MD 11 for the next several years, as with every displacement bid those former 737 Capt.s come onto the right seat of the MD 11.
So if tomorrow, Richard says, "Hey, we want to start a new, Low Cost Airline in Orlando, and we are going to use our MD 88's and we are going to pay the Capt.s $100/hr..."
Would you (any of you) vote yes to that?
That's about what happened with Express and POS 96, which I voted NO to.
Alter Ego Airlines -- code-sharing run amok
04-09-2012 | 07:51 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
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Timbo,
I was only saying it in the context of bringing DCI jets onboard, not transferring planes already on our side of the scope line.
I was only saying it in the context of bringing DCI jets onboard, not transferring planes already on our side of the scope line.
04-09-2012 | 07:52 AM
Sho me da money!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
From: B25, Left
No.
The history of this dates back to the beginning of aviation. E L Cord, the founder of American Airlines was first and foremost the owner of competing conglomerates.
Errett Lobban Cord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He, and other airline progenitors would commonly replace their pilots, getting rid of those who demanded more pay to compensate for greater risks, or experience (IE seniority). When pilots refused to fly in hazardous conditions and risk others' lives, those pilots would be fired and replaced with new, junior pilots.
Eventually the pilots followed the labor movement and unionized. In some cases they saw pay raises of 500% over time.
After deregulation there was a massive and permanent decline in revenues that airlines receive for their product. Today we are only beginning to see the stabilization of a decline which has been ongoing since 1978. Airlines have floundered in a vicious economic cycle (which appears to have always been the case to folks in our generation, but it wasn't). Pay was wildly out of step with revenues and concessionary contracts are always a hard sell.
The easy solution was a "B scale." Most everyone knows what that is, but for the uninitiated, "B Scale" was much lower pay for new hires who performed the same work, on the same airplanes. It was unfair, since those hired earlier got paid much more.
As more and more pilots who had experienced "B Scale" rose in the ranks of the airlines, they gained political power within ALPA and demanded that the unfair "B Scale" be ended. Our current generation of ALPA leadership well remembers "B Scale" and how it negatively effected their careers.
I think the first move to outsource B Scale flying was at Eastern Airlines under Babbit (but I'm not sure). Babbit is about the only former ALPA leader who has talked openly about what he considers to have been a mistake to move B Scale (small aircraft) flying off the seniority list.
By the time Charles Giambusso (former Delta MEC Chair) came along, every major airline had engaged in outsourcing small aircraft flying. US Air probably had the most, on a percentage basis, when the question of Comair came along. Small aircraft flying was seen as a problem, a stepping stone, a pariah, to mainline lists. Worse, having used outsourcing as a method to eliminate hated B Scale, small aircraft flying on the list was perceived as a threat. Just as the B Scale pilots had wrestled control away from their oppressors, the B Scale guys feared the next generation would take control from them and lavish negotiating capital on increasing pay on smaller aircraft AT THE SENIOR PILOTS EXPENSE!
While this happened at every major airline, the effect was particularly acute at Delta, where you had excellent labor relations with management and a lot of military pilots who had done pretty well working for Delta. For the most part, the Delta pilots saw less need for the sort of "unity" used to fight management compared to pilots who had come to age in EL Cord's time. The Delta MEC and Delta pilots saw nothing to gain and much to lose by pursuing unity with pilots who performed their outsourced flying. Delta management had always been benevolent and the concepts of "unity" which were a religion to some within our union were considered something of a quaint notion at Delta, if the concept of "unity" as a way to fight management like EL Cord's was understood at all.
Today we are at a crossroads. The experienced hands say "trust us, Delta management has our best interests at heart." The junior pilots see nearly half the airline outsourced in a decade and are fearful of just the sort of alter ego replacement EL Cord (and early airline managers) did as a matter of routine.
It is my opinion airline management has not changed. Delta at one time was a very unique Company that has adapted and changed becoming like its competitors and now leading them. There is no doubt Richard Anderson has been a good steward of the corporate entity. However, any quaint notion that Delta network management approaches their job with warm and fuzzy feeling about Delta employees is ridiculous. These are numbers men and they approach your career with the certainty and coldness that are the result of purely mathematical calculation. In other words, EL Cord's sensibilities tied to a lightning fast computer and only filtered by a sense of political correctness and legal restraint.
We need a return to our roots, unity. Nothing has changed in aviation. Just as in Cord's day without unity we will be replaced by junior pilots willing to perform our work for less, willing to sacrifice working conditions and willing to sacrifice safety.
I don't see this as a matter of economics. It is a matter of survival. Logically it follows that if ALPA fails to unify their pilots, ALPA itself will be the first to fail. By the time the DPA supporters figure out their plan is ineffective all will already be lost. The answer to preserve our union, our careers, our pay and "Delta Air Lines" as we know it is unity ... we have to get to Delta pilots performing Delta flying.
The history of this dates back to the beginning of aviation. E L Cord, the founder of American Airlines was first and foremost the owner of competing conglomerates.
Errett Lobban Cord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He, and other airline progenitors would commonly replace their pilots, getting rid of those who demanded more pay to compensate for greater risks, or experience (IE seniority). When pilots refused to fly in hazardous conditions and risk others' lives, those pilots would be fired and replaced with new, junior pilots.
Eventually the pilots followed the labor movement and unionized. In some cases they saw pay raises of 500% over time.
After deregulation there was a massive and permanent decline in revenues that airlines receive for their product. Today we are only beginning to see the stabilization of a decline which has been ongoing since 1978. Airlines have floundered in a vicious economic cycle (which appears to have always been the case to folks in our generation, but it wasn't). Pay was wildly out of step with revenues and concessionary contracts are always a hard sell.
The easy solution was a "B scale." Most everyone knows what that is, but for the uninitiated, "B Scale" was much lower pay for new hires who performed the same work, on the same airplanes. It was unfair, since those hired earlier got paid much more.
As more and more pilots who had experienced "B Scale" rose in the ranks of the airlines, they gained political power within ALPA and demanded that the unfair "B Scale" be ended. Our current generation of ALPA leadership well remembers "B Scale" and how it negatively effected their careers.
I think the first move to outsource B Scale flying was at Eastern Airlines under Babbit (but I'm not sure). Babbit is about the only former ALPA leader who has talked openly about what he considers to have been a mistake to move B Scale (small aircraft) flying off the seniority list.
By the time Charles Giambusso (former Delta MEC Chair) came along, every major airline had engaged in outsourcing small aircraft flying. US Air probably had the most, on a percentage basis, when the question of Comair came along. Small aircraft flying was seen as a problem, a stepping stone, a pariah, to mainline lists. Worse, having used outsourcing as a method to eliminate hated B Scale, small aircraft flying on the list was perceived as a threat. Just as the B Scale pilots had wrestled control away from their oppressors, the B Scale guys feared the next generation would take control from them and lavish negotiating capital on increasing pay on smaller aircraft AT THE SENIOR PILOTS EXPENSE!
While this happened at every major airline, the effect was particularly acute at Delta, where you had excellent labor relations with management and a lot of military pilots who had done pretty well working for Delta. For the most part, the Delta pilots saw less need for the sort of "unity" used to fight management compared to pilots who had come to age in EL Cord's time. The Delta MEC and Delta pilots saw nothing to gain and much to lose by pursuing unity with pilots who performed their outsourced flying. Delta management had always been benevolent and the concepts of "unity" which were a religion to some within our union were considered something of a quaint notion at Delta, if the concept of "unity" as a way to fight management like EL Cord's was understood at all.
Today we are at a crossroads. The experienced hands say "trust us, Delta management has our best interests at heart." The junior pilots see nearly half the airline outsourced in a decade and are fearful of just the sort of alter ego replacement EL Cord (and early airline managers) did as a matter of routine.
It is my opinion airline management has not changed. Delta at one time was a very unique Company that has adapted and changed becoming like its competitors and now leading them. There is no doubt Richard Anderson has been a good steward of the corporate entity. However, any quaint notion that Delta network management approaches their job with warm and fuzzy feeling about Delta employees is ridiculous. These are numbers men and they approach your career with the certainty and coldness that are the result of purely mathematical calculation. In other words, EL Cord's sensibilities tied to a lightning fast computer and only filtered by a sense of political correctness and legal restraint.
We need a return to our roots, unity. Nothing has changed in aviation. Just as in Cord's day without unity we will be replaced by junior pilots willing to perform our work for less, willing to sacrifice working conditions and willing to sacrifice safety.
I don't see this as a matter of economics. It is a matter of survival. Logically it follows that if ALPA fails to unify their pilots, ALPA itself will be the first to fail. By the time the DPA supporters figure out their plan is ineffective all will already be lost. The answer to preserve our union, our careers, our pay and "Delta Air Lines" as we know it is unity ... we have to get to Delta pilots performing Delta flying.
Bar,
Very good post. I enjoy a practical well written post. It is again in support for the facts that this is a career critical contract......Thx
04-09-2012 | 08:00 AM
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
First of all, not our problem. Seriously, it isn't. We could get all the RJ scope back tomorrow and this "me too" bolshevism crap gets sent straight to Leningrad because its not our problem. Let the other work groups negotiate and pay for their own scope. The company could easily just off list it (or just threaten to) for them for the same price...only at a "new" subsidiary with a vert tasty longevity reset, which you know they love to do, and when the labor groups come squealing for another pilot "me too" the company should tell them the same thing they tell us..."what are you willing to give up to pay for it" and oh by the way, it'll be done on a B scale, so are y'all cool with that?
I am not talking about "Me too" clauses or that sort of thing. When I state the costs of other employees, I am stating what DAL will use as an argument and a cost that we will have to make up. They will not go for paying the other employee groups here less to perform the work, they will want us to eat it. You may disagree with that, but why on earth would they agree to eat that cost, or no make us pay for it when by our PWA there is no reason for them to bring the flying back.
What I am showing you is the cost benefits of outsourcing. Pilot labor costs are a small fraction of the savings
I bet the other work groups will drop it like a bad transmission because as much as we don't "get" the whole scope concept at times, we get it better than any other group...so much so that we've been carrying their water for decades. They are not about to unionize over something they don't have or care to get in the first place but if they want to, let them "pay for it" too. I bet they drop it instantly. Anyway, in the very unlikely event the other work groups want to insource all these cheaper paying, less desireable jobs, they can start negotiating with the company. Union or non union, it's going to be a B scale that provides significant savings for the company...or...the savings will have to be amortized over the rest of the work group to pay for it. Either way there will be significant savings over "mainline book". There is no way the other work groups, who totally and completely lack the interest and foresight to even know what scope is, much less care enough to pay for it, will end up getting everything we get in this area for free. It'll be pay to play and I bet they don't even ante up at the table.
Right, like Pinnacle?
I think the days are very numbered where companies can use fake phony accounting trickery to "hide" debt from the ones it matters most...the shareholders. While it may always be legal, if debt is a big concern, they will start figuring out the paper lies and sooner or later some analysts will start costing the true debt in.
Right, like Pinnacle?
I think the days are very numbered where companies can use fake phony accounting trickery to "hide" debt from the ones it matters most...the shareholders. While it may always be legal, if debt is a big concern, they will start figuring out the paper lies and sooner or later some analysts will start costing the true debt in.
Disagree. They (not all but easilly most) outsource because they can and for no other reason. It is, literally, a religion to them. They fantasize about shareholder conference calls and board meetings for the fake Delta Ticket Seller where they make nothing, produce nothing and contribute nothing yet collect massive bonuses proportionate to the size of the revenue laundered through their paper shell inventions. WWCEWD? Not the guy that sits at his desk, but him. What would he do? Would he be interested in outsourcing the entire airline (which they would do in a NY slot swap second if we let them) or actually running an airline with people and airplanes and customers that come to us to be flown in our airplanes by our people instead of Skyteam operated by Delta operated by Delta Connection operated by republic operated by Shuttle America on the separate certificate trick for your travelling enjoyment?
I do agree that DAL wants brand recognition, but seems to no want to in-source the work to control the brand. With all of the code shares et al, they really do appear to desire being a ticket broker more than an airline. We can and have in the past stopped our airline from making bad decisions. I hope that we can show value in performing your own work, and not just value that can be easily reported on a 10K. The real value of performing your own work or flying in our case comes in the form on a overall appearance and perception of a product. That often cannot be reported as a line number on a balance sheet. It shows up as loyalty with a larger bottom line, but no in the way the mba's of today are used to reporting.
04-09-2012 | 08:02 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Sorry, I must have misunderstood you, I thought you were saying Express was the same as brining new airplanes on line, of which I am in full favor. Express was about putting existing Mainline airframes into a LCC type operation, at a significant pay cut, which is a whole 'nutha can of worms.
But in the end, if we keep on voting YES to pay cuts and out sourcing our flying...well, all of Airline Management would be stupid not to keep throwing it at us, right? That's their JOB; get More, for Less.
ALPA's Job is to tell them NO! BUT...ALPA can't do it without the full support of the pilot group. It still takes 51% of the Pilot Group to vote NO and make it stick. The Delta Pilots have NEVER voted NO to any T/A, so we got that going for us...
04-09-2012 | 08:05 AM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Can anyone share their experience of returning to Delta after a long away period.
I was a NWA pilot in 2001, then furloughed for 6 years and mil leave for the last 5 years. I'll be returning in the late fall and would appreciate any information you can share.
Thanks,
RetiredFTS
I was a NWA pilot in 2001, then furloughed for 6 years and mil leave for the last 5 years. I'll be returning in the late fall and would appreciate any information you can share.
Thanks,
RetiredFTS
04-09-2012 | 08:11 AM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
No.
The history of this dates back to the beginning of aviation. E L Cord, the founder of American Airlines was first and foremost the owner of competing conglomerates.
Errett Lobban Cord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He, and other airline progenitors would commonly replace their pilots, getting rid of those who demanded more pay to compensate for greater risks, or experience (IE seniority). When pilots refused to fly in hazardous conditions and risk others' lives, those pilots would be fired and replaced with new, junior pilots.
Eventually the pilots followed the labor movement and unionized. In some cases they saw pay raises of 500% over time.
After deregulation there was a massive and permanent decline in revenues that airlines receive for their product. Today we are only beginning to see the stabilization of a decline which has been ongoing since 1978. Airlines have floundered in a vicious economic cycle (which appears to have always been the case to folks in our generation, but it wasn't). Pay was wildly out of step with revenues and concessionary contracts are always a hard sell.
The easy solution was a "B scale." Most everyone knows what that is, but for the uninitiated, "B Scale" was much lower pay for new hires who performed the same work, on the same airplanes. It was unfair, since those hired earlier got paid much more.
As more and more pilots who had experienced "B Scale" rose in the ranks of the airlines, they gained political power within ALPA and demanded that the unfair "B Scale" be ended. Our current generation of ALPA leadership well remembers "B Scale" and how it negatively effected their careers.
I think the first move to outsource B Scale flying was at Eastern Airlines under Babbit (but I'm not sure). Babbit is about the only former ALPA leader who has talked openly about what he considers to have been a mistake to move B Scale (small aircraft) flying off the seniority list.
By the time Charles Giambusso (former Delta MEC Chair) came along, every major airline had engaged in outsourcing small aircraft flying. US Air probably had the most, on a percentage basis, when the question of Comair came along. Small aircraft flying was seen as a problem, a stepping stone, a pariah, to mainline lists. Worse, having used outsourcing as a method to eliminate hated B Scale, small aircraft flying on the list was perceived as a threat. Just as the B Scale pilots had wrestled control away from their oppressors, the B Scale guys feared the next generation would take control from them and lavish negotiating capital on increasing pay on smaller aircraft AT THE SENIOR PILOTS EXPENSE!
While this happened at every major airline, the effect was particularly acute at Delta, where you had excellent labor relations with management and a lot of military pilots who had done pretty well working for Delta. For the most part, the Delta pilots saw less need for the sort of "unity" used to fight management compared to pilots who had come to age in EL Cord's time. The Delta MEC and Delta pilots saw nothing to gain and much to lose by pursuing unity with pilots who performed their outsourced flying. Delta management had always been benevolent and the concepts of "unity" which were a religion to some within our union were considered something of a quaint notion at Delta, if the concept of "unity" as a way to fight management like EL Cord's was understood at all.
Today we are at a crossroads. The experienced hands say "trust us, Delta management has our best interests at heart." The junior pilots see nearly half the airline outsourced in a decade and are fearful of just the sort of alter ego replacement EL Cord (and early airline managers) did as a matter of routine.
It is my opinion airline management has not changed. Delta at one time was a very unique Company that has adapted and changed becoming like its competitors and now leading them. There is no doubt Richard Anderson has been a good steward of the corporate entity. However, any quaint notion that Delta network management approaches their job with warm and fuzzy feeling about Delta employees is ridiculous. These are numbers men and they approach your career with the certainty and coldness that are the result of purely mathematical calculation. In other words, EL Cord's sensibilities tied to a lightning fast computer and only filtered by a sense of political correctness and legal restraint.
We need a return to our roots, unity. Nothing has changed in aviation. Just as in Cord's day without unity we will be replaced by junior pilots willing to perform our work for less, willing to sacrifice working conditions and willing to sacrifice safety.
I don't see this as a matter of economics. It is a matter of survival. Logically it follows that if ALPA fails to unify their pilots, ALPA itself will be the first to fail. By the time the DPA supporters figure out their plan is ineffective all will already be lost. The answer to preserve our union, our careers, our pay and "Delta Air Lines" as we know it is unity ... we have to get to Delta pilots performing Delta flying.
The history of this dates back to the beginning of aviation. E L Cord, the founder of American Airlines was first and foremost the owner of competing conglomerates.
Errett Lobban Cord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He, and other airline progenitors would commonly replace their pilots, getting rid of those who demanded more pay to compensate for greater risks, or experience (IE seniority). When pilots refused to fly in hazardous conditions and risk others' lives, those pilots would be fired and replaced with new, junior pilots.
Eventually the pilots followed the labor movement and unionized. In some cases they saw pay raises of 500% over time.
After deregulation there was a massive and permanent decline in revenues that airlines receive for their product. Today we are only beginning to see the stabilization of a decline which has been ongoing since 1978. Airlines have floundered in a vicious economic cycle (which appears to have always been the case to folks in our generation, but it wasn't). Pay was wildly out of step with revenues and concessionary contracts are always a hard sell.
The easy solution was a "B scale." Most everyone knows what that is, but for the uninitiated, "B Scale" was much lower pay for new hires who performed the same work, on the same airplanes. It was unfair, since those hired earlier got paid much more.
As more and more pilots who had experienced "B Scale" rose in the ranks of the airlines, they gained political power within ALPA and demanded that the unfair "B Scale" be ended. Our current generation of ALPA leadership well remembers "B Scale" and how it negatively effected their careers.
I think the first move to outsource B Scale flying was at Eastern Airlines under Babbit (but I'm not sure). Babbit is about the only former ALPA leader who has talked openly about what he considers to have been a mistake to move B Scale (small aircraft) flying off the seniority list.
By the time Charles Giambusso (former Delta MEC Chair) came along, every major airline had engaged in outsourcing small aircraft flying. US Air probably had the most, on a percentage basis, when the question of Comair came along. Small aircraft flying was seen as a problem, a stepping stone, a pariah, to mainline lists. Worse, having used outsourcing as a method to eliminate hated B Scale, small aircraft flying on the list was perceived as a threat. Just as the B Scale pilots had wrestled control away from their oppressors, the B Scale guys feared the next generation would take control from them and lavish negotiating capital on increasing pay on smaller aircraft AT THE SENIOR PILOTS EXPENSE!
While this happened at every major airline, the effect was particularly acute at Delta, where you had excellent labor relations with management and a lot of military pilots who had done pretty well working for Delta. For the most part, the Delta pilots saw less need for the sort of "unity" used to fight management compared to pilots who had come to age in EL Cord's time. The Delta MEC and Delta pilots saw nothing to gain and much to lose by pursuing unity with pilots who performed their outsourced flying. Delta management had always been benevolent and the concepts of "unity" which were a religion to some within our union were considered something of a quaint notion at Delta, if the concept of "unity" as a way to fight management like EL Cord's was understood at all.
Today we are at a crossroads. The experienced hands say "trust us, Delta management has our best interests at heart." The junior pilots see nearly half the airline outsourced in a decade and are fearful of just the sort of alter ego replacement EL Cord (and early airline managers) did as a matter of routine.
It is my opinion airline management has not changed. Delta at one time was a very unique Company that has adapted and changed becoming like its competitors and now leading them. There is no doubt Richard Anderson has been a good steward of the corporate entity. However, any quaint notion that Delta network management approaches their job with warm and fuzzy feeling about Delta employees is ridiculous. These are numbers men and they approach your career with the certainty and coldness that are the result of purely mathematical calculation. In other words, EL Cord's sensibilities tied to a lightning fast computer and only filtered by a sense of political correctness and legal restraint.
We need a return to our roots, unity. Nothing has changed in aviation. Just as in Cord's day without unity we will be replaced by junior pilots willing to perform our work for less, willing to sacrifice working conditions and willing to sacrifice safety.
I don't see this as a matter of economics. It is a matter of survival. Logically it follows that if ALPA fails to unify their pilots, ALPA itself will be the first to fail. By the time the DPA supporters figure out their plan is ineffective all will already be lost. The answer to preserve our union, our careers, our pay and "Delta Air Lines" as we know it is unity ... we have to get to Delta pilots performing Delta flying.
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