Where are the FA's compared to their pre 9-11 rates and where are the pilots?

And the pilots have been saving FA jobs by the tens of thousands by paying to negotiate their scope.

I'm done with the cat rancher Bolshevism. It just doesn't apply.

Haha well done!

So why does the RPTOR arrival not have all the points loaded in the box, or is just the maddog that gets to perform this FDMS exercise?

Technically, that's true -- but they may think it will be necessary in order to keep other unions off the property. It's always useful to know what your opponent is thinking during negotiations, even if (and perhaps especially if) their thinking is erroneous.

Of course we are because we fly the smaller jets across the pond. AF is carrying more tonnage per pilot than we are.

What we are seeing is what happens on the backside of the JV. If we ever see a front side to it, our growth will be 3 block hrs to every on of theirs. In a growth cycle we have to add more flying because we use smaller jets. If we were both using similar gauge jets, it would be 1-1.

Often stated but true; One 380 equates to about three 767 worth of flying. The unintended consequence is that they fly bigger metal and we fly smaller metal at a lower pay rate.

That may very well be the case. I don't have the time or accurate resources to crunch these numbers as to what the company can afford in terms of hiring or extra cash. However, common sense tells me that with a profit of $1 BIL. each year the last two years, a 4% restoration over four years does not cut it and I will speak with the only power I have as a line pilot; my vote.

Again, I don't give a **** what other employee groups want. They already got theirs. I care about what you and I get back. That's OUR money paying off the Delta debt. We need to have high expectations my friend. Settle for nothing less. Feel that wind in your sails Sailingfun my man. All of our voices together will be the wind that pushes us forward.

Regards,
NA

i - r - o - n - y?

Meh...not worth it. I'll let others do their own thinking...

Nu

Typical response... Where did he ever say that? I don't think anybody looks at our contract and says that everything is fine. That is extremely lame on your part to even insinuate such a stance. Some might look at the industry as a whole and make realistic judgements about where we are and where we can get based on that analysis. You would then be ever so happy to sit in your corner and lob a "you're management" or "you're trying to manage expectations" grenade. Fact is that there are differing opinions, and just because someone's happens to differ with yours doesn't make them wrong. Do YOU really think that we could obtain a 50% pay increase while everybody else is wallowing in BK contracts... and the once largest carrier is about to be handed one? If your answer to this is a resounding yes, then please tell me how it is that DAL is able to operate in such a vacuum and still have a stock price that is below $10, and a P/E that is one of the lowest in the industry? Why isn't Wall Street, which has a better eye when it comes to valuing a company than you or I, driving DAL's P/E thru the roof. If it were equal to SWA (for example) it would be somewhere around $30/share.. Why isn't it? DO you think that DAL's debt burden might have just a little to do with that? Yes.. it is not our problem to pay that down, and I am not making excuses for it, but DAL is still a ways from being out of the BK doldrums. Frankly I wish we could extend our contract for a year or two. I would take that rumor of an extension for a 20% raise in a heartbeat because once the debt is down, I am convinced that DAL is gonna kick some serious a$$... but that is just me. Our timing on this contract is not very good IMHO. Once again, we have to lead the way for the industry, and we have the AMR anchor around our necks.

Flame on soldier.

Excellent thought! However, I think we all busted our asses to get where we are and are willing to protect this job as a professional career and not a trade. At least I am. Speaking as a junior guy who knew no one at this airline and managed to get on I am extremely grateful to be here. I don't feel entitled to anything except what we are worth and nothing less. Right now we are nowhere near where we need to be.

How we perceive ourselves is what it's all about. If we have the attitude that we should accept less because someone else will do it cheaper is not the right attitude. Hundreds of people trust us to fly them in a multimillion dollar thin metal tube at 35,000 feet going 600mph over great distances every time we go to work. Stop and think about that. The level of trust and responsibility the public and our management places in our hands is not comparable to any other "trade." There are many other professions that pay more with much less responsibility.

The new flight time requirements are a great idea.

NA