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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1194928)
The biggest mistake anyone can make is to assume that management is your friend. We have made our pilot group into a business partner with management That is what constructive engagement is, it is not going to birthday parties and yucking it up in the corporate boardroom.
We have added value to Delta in the last five years and they have put value back into our pockets. We have compounded gains into our contract at a rate that vastly exceeds other pilot groups. If we stop adding value to the company, they will put us to the side and ignore us for as long as they can. Events of the last five years have shown that we can sit for years, in fact many years with nothing happening in old school Section 6. If you are unsure about what happens when you no longer are a business partner look what happened to Mesa (Freedom). As soon as they got on the bad side of Delta they went Scarface on them, they ended up in bankruptcy. Here are the returns (both pay and DC plan) per year since bankruptcy exit: 2008 - 5.3% (average, some higher some lower) 2009 - 5% 2010 - 5% 2011 - 5% 2012 - 4% + 4%(TA) = 8.1% compounded 2013 - 8.5% (TA) 2014 - 4% (TA) 2015 - 3% (TA) Quick, one of you financial gurus do a compounded return on that and let me know what you come up with. Not enough. Please refer to the survey results. You fell way short of even touching the median desired pay percentage. You fell short of even matching SWA on Jan. 1, '13 which was a floor for most folks. Then, consider SWA is set to open section 6 and has a system in place to have automatic raises going forward of up tp 3% a year. That leaves us way behind them again by 2015!! What you have deliverd to us leaves us no where near effective pattern bargaining. Giant FAIL on DALPA's part. You all knew the stakes were high and what the potential ramifications of not listening to your constituents would be. Wonder what Tims PO Box is gonna look like in, oh about, 24 hours. |
Originally Posted by Elvis90
(Post 1194841)
. Also, aren't we prepping for an AS merger? He needs the pilots' help on that, just like DAL-NWA.
Now HA or someone else is of a different nature. Here's some food for thought while we are on this subject. All the news about AMR lately has been from the press talking about the unions' conversations with Dougie Parker, and Dougie Parker's conversations with the unions. Where has AMR management been in all of this? Strangely quiet IMO. Are they sitting idle and watching how this is unfolding without enacting SOME kind of plan? I highly highly doubt that. Time will tell.. but I will bet that the AMR/U deal is far from being what it appears. |
Originally Posted by Elvis90
(Post 1194841)
. Also, aren't we prepping for an AS merger? He needs the pilots' help on that, just like DAL-NWA.
Now HA or someone else is of a different nature. Here's some food for thought while we are on this subject. All the news about AMR lately has been from the press talking about the unions' conversations with Dougie Parker, and Dougie Parker's conversations with the unions. Where has AMR management been in all of this? Strangely quiet IMO. Are they sitting idle and watching how this is unfolding without enacting SOME kind of plan? I highly highly doubt that. Time will tell.. but I will bet that the AMR/U deal is far from being what it appears. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1194961)
And frankly, I'm stuck on scope. If I had to chose between the two I'd rather have our current PWA scope. Everybody take a deep breath and think about this for a little while. Sign off from these boards, and put a pencil to paper and look at where we are.. and where we will be wrt scope. Like I said in another post.. I can live with this. For the junior guys, I think this will turn out better in the long run. |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1194853)
Fear, huh? Let's look at facts:
Airtran: 86 months in negotiations, they voted down a TA and didn't get another contract for about 5 years. They voted down the first TA with Southwest over seniority and just a short time later had to eat a much worse deal. Continental: 47 months in negotiations United: 36 months in negotiations American: 60+ months in negotiations, now in bankruptcy Airways: Merged in late 2005, now 80 months in negotiations So what facts do you have to claim I am being fearful? The 29 month figure came from a slide that the NMB Chairwoman presented to the MEC and is posted on the ALPA website and included all the railroads which tend to have shorter negotiations. Why would she put that there? You can ignore facts and history at your own peril. Please don't tell me that we are going to bet our careers based on the advice of some internet blowhard. At least do some basic research first. The blow back from this strategy and ill fated decision will be facsinating to watch this summer. You all have seriously miscalculated the pilot group. Have to give you one prop though. You all have some sheer audacity and balls for trying to force this one down on everyone in face of the external factors breathing down the MEC committee's necks. But we already are familiar with the impudence that you swim in as it has been on full display and never more so than with the handling of the FPL resolutions. |
Originally Posted by newKnow
(Post 1194984)
This is STILL a huge concern of mine. Will one of the "experts" please respond to this post?
1. Formulae values for the bid period at issue: A = scheduled block and credit hours for such position B = total vacation hours for such position, where vacation hours = # of projected vacation days x (ALV/30) C = total training hours for such position, where training hours = # of projected training days x (ALV/30) D = ALV for such position E = 12 bid period rolling average of block and credit hours flown by reserve pilots for such position + H for such position F = 12 bid period rolling average of reserve duty periods worked for such position G = 12 bid period rolling average of scheduled block and credit hours for such position H = 12 bid period rolling average GS/GSWC/IA/IAWC hours flown, minus one standard deviation for such position Note one: In determining a 12 bid period rolling average, the Company will use the least recent 12 of the previous 14 bid periods. Note two: The ALV for a position will be between 72 and 82 hours (inclusive). 2. For each position in each bid period: a. Regular pilots = (A + B + C)/D b. Domestic reserve pilots = [(E /60) x 0.6 + (F /14) x 0.4] x (A/G) c. International reserve pilots = [(E /60) x 0.8 + (F/14) x 0.2] x (A/ G) 3. For each position in each bid period, the total pilots required will be determined as follows: a. Total pilots for a domestic position = regular pilots + domestic reserve pilots. b. Total pilots for an international position = regular pilots + international reserve pilots. The statement that staffing is not an average is just false. It is an average of an average. (double secret average) There are also terms for Duty Periods worked (F/14) in the formula. That is because domestic pilots are more prone to having multiple duty periods with low block time (those goofy non-bid package rotations) and international pilots usually get more block time per day worked. The formula takes that into account to ensure that pilots aren't working 17 or 18 duty periods with low block time. I remember my two years as the plug MD-88 reserve captain under the old system (where junior guys ate it non stop) and that is why Duty Periods made it into that formula. |
Originally Posted by Elvis90
(Post 1195036)
Fair enough - no intel on AS. But consolidation is not complete by RA's own words...just a question of who.
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1195057)
This is the staffing formula:
I apologize for any formatting goofs because I cut it from a PDF. Look at E, 12 month rolling average of reserve time. Look at 2b. where it says E/60. That is the average. If reserve pilots average more than 60 hours, you need more reserves. The changes in the bid period windows (July and August) and the change to the ALV will level out staffing requirements for the whole year. That is to take away the summer surge. Just for example, the staffing increase required by the increased vacation value (3+15, which is still too low in my book, see I can find negatives) will be more than the minimal decrease from the ALV+15. The statement that staffing is not an average is just false. It is an average of an average. (double secret average) There are also terms for Duty Periods worked (F/14) in the formula. That is because domestic pilots are more prone to having multiple duty periods with low block time (those goofy non-bid package rotations) and international pilots usually get more block time per day worked. The formula takes that into account to ensure that pilots aren't working 17 or 18 duty periods with low block time. I remember my two years as the plug MD-88 reserve captain under the old system (where junior guys ate it non stop) and that is why Duty Periods made it into that formula. Thanks for responding. You are going to have to forgive me though. It's probably going to take me all afternoon to 1.) figure out the formulas, and 2.) figure out what you are trying to say. Did humans negotiate this TA? |
Alpha,
Why aren't you commenting on the Average Daily Credit for reserves now being included in the formula? Seems like a significant improvement. For 2010 my pay would have been ~ 10 thousand more based on this provision alone. Am I interpreting this provision incorrectly? |
Never mind.
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