Originally Posted by johnso29

They've put a ton of $$$ in them. They're here until they get that money back. Lots of airlines still fly 4 engine airplanes. Just because they have twice as many motors doesn't mean they don't make $$$.

Originally Posted by tsquare

THAT's where we are NOW!!!!! That's where we are going!!!! In case you haven't noticed, the 737-900 is smaller than the 767.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

RA has commented on the four engine jets many times throughout the last decade, but keep in mind; The 748i is 20% more efficient than the 744. If DAL knows they can fill it, it makes sense to buy a handful of them. It just depends on where they want the airline to go. If they opt to operate an airline the 773 and the 748 could have their place. The 789 will also be a major player in our fleet going forward for those point to point routes in Asia, and the ME.

The 748i would be good on ATL-ICN (good enough for a 380), ATL-DXB, ATL-CAI, NYC-TLV, DTW-HKG, DTW-ICN, LAX-ICN, ATL-NRT, LAX-NRT, ATL-JNB etc. Anywhere we need a lot of cargo lift it makes sense. Frequency can solve that, but we lack lift and frequency in to a lot of markets.

Originally Posted by tsquare

True dat.. but they DO burn twice as much gas.. or more... and there is a point of diminishing returns. When those airplanes operating margin is what they want it to be, they get parked. There is a curve, and when it hits that curve, out they go. They will cut their losses rather than continue losing money (when the point to operate the aircraft becomes too great) regardless of how much they have invested in lie flats etc...

Originally Posted by Kingbird87

It's a fantastic day here in West Tennessee. I'm going out to the deer lease to see the new old tractor we got to manage the land. Two Delta pilots managed to break the old W. German John Deere last season. Luckily, we have four retired mechanics in the lease. I had my "hair shirt" on earlier this morning. I value each of you as my peers and the efforts you make each day on behalf of Delta Air Lines. I stand by my comments and appreciate the discourse. We are at a watershed. Frustration is building to a fever pitch. We can use that to change the course of our careers, or we can Red Book/Green Book, Delta/Western/PanAm ourselves into the mediocre middle of the pack. I was hired at Western, got the green light at Delta, went to Northwest and flew on the Red side, spent the last 23 years in a Green base and had a relative that flew for PanAm. They are or were all among the best this profession has offered. Unity.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

It is smaller, and the 739 should be banded with the 739 and the 767 with the 765 and 330 if we go that way. The rest of the domestic narrow body jets should be banded together to a floor of 77 seats.

Originally Posted by tsquare

That's pie in the sky. You want to bet your future on THAT? I know I certainly don't. Until it has a widget on the tail and is in the bid package, I don't care about it.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Sell me on this point. And I assume you meant the 739 should be with the 757/767.. But convince me why there should now be 3 bands.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

T;
I was making a point that we have the cargo statistics to support those jets. That is all.

I also know as soon as we band pay and put an order in for the 773 or 748 pilots will go all up in arms because it will pay the same as a 772 or a 330. Like I said, it needs a debate and to be voted on. It was part of the survey.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Simple. The 757 will be going away long before the ER's do. The ER's in many instances will be here for another 20+ years. Therefore you want to pull it up. You will not be able to pull the 739 up to the WB band, but most will not agree that it should be in the NB band. It is effectively the CAL Wide, LN, SN scheme. It also allows for the 787 to pay the same as the 767(wide) and 777 if you use three bands.

The middle band allows for the 321, 739, 757, 753 to all be in that middle band while keeping the predominantly international jets separate. It leaves some room for negotiation. If you wanted make it four bands, but then all you are really doing is banding the nb jets and keeping the 777 and 744 separate.

For you blood pressure, there is a lot of traction on banding. It just needs to be done correctly, that is all.