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Originally Posted by JungleBus
(Post 1156635)
Aww geeze, are we really arguing about what the NMB will or won't do? It really doesn't matter.
Originally Posted by JungleBus
(Post 1156635)
The NMB *will* park DALPA, you *are* too big to strike, and the President *will* send you back to work.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1156526)
Holy cow. OK, let's go over this again. Here is page 16 of the NMB's PowerPoint presentation to labor:
Regarding the second bullet above, this doesn't apply to us because we have in our contract that we will request the NMB's services in 3 months (I believe) after our amendable date. That means around 3/31/2013. Since we've just exchanged openers, that means we'll only have 12 months of direct negotiations. The third bullet above is really the key because it shows that the NMB process is not a bottomless pit of surrender for labor. Now for the math. After our contract's amendable date, we'll have a maximum of 3 more months of direct negotiations, then 29 months (typical) of NMB involvement before self-help could commence. 29 plus 3 is 32 months. Not even 3 years. Would you not be willing to fight hard for 32 months if management decided to play hard ball? This is really important to understand, and NOT believe what the sailingfun's are trying to spew about the NMB process taking 5 or more years and a no-win situation for labor. Carl Are you sure you've done this before. |
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
Yeah Carl, I'm not done. This whole conversation started with Sailing saying that if it goes to the NMB expect a long process. Maybe 5 years. You called him a liar, several times.
The NMB gave a historic perspective of airline contract negotiations and the NMB's historic role in them when they've been asked to join.
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
Then, very subtly you changed the conversation and claimed he said that the NMB portion of negotiations would take 5 years. And again you called him a liar.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
You are so blinded by rage (about the sli is my guess)
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
and entitlement issues that you are either unable to correctly read and comprehend the English language or you are pushing an agenda.
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
The agenda in the long run is to get rid of ALPA, in the short term to set up a belief in everyone's mind that if we don't get everything we want within 6 months of starting negotiations that DALPA has failed and we should change agents.
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
Now you can say what the NMB is going to do. That's fine, and the arguments you make are good. But it would be idiotic to think that the company isn't going to have arguments to counter them. So, no one knows what the NMB will say or do, and to claim you do know is foolish.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
Now, some recent history that Johnso was referring to. I'll post the source documents so everyone can read for themselves,
APA Negotiations Updates 2010 crewroom.alpa.org/pclmec > Negotiations http://unbiasedfacts.org/WallStreetJournalOnContinentalPilotPay.pdf[/url] AirTran Pilots Ratify New Contract | AVIATION WEEK Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1156691)
Sailingfun did lie. No question. He claimed all these statements happened duriing the NMB's presentation to DALPA. When I called him out on the lies, he backed off and said that the NMB said so...in a "round about manner."
The NMB gave a historic perspective of airline contract negotiations and the NMB's historic role in them when they've been asked to join. It was and is sailingfun that's been stating the NMB will park us indefinitely depending upon various and changing scenarios. What do you think "parking" means? Carl I was going to raise the flag on this as well but of course Carl was right on it. You can go over the presentation slide by slide on the dalpa website and no where in it did it even get close to stating anything sailing claimed. Further conversation with a representative present at the presentation did not support sailings claim that it was said in " a round about mannner." Again folks. Does it make sense for an official of the NMB to make such bold statements in anything other than a private one on one converstation that could potentially cause serious blow back for them?? This is a not so subtle attempt to manipulate the message. Plain and simple. |
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
So, the point? Quit giving people the impression that we'll walk in, slam our demands on a desk, give them the finger and walk out with a new contract that has everything we want.
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
That's not going to happen, and you know it's not going to happen.
Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156685)
We have a chance to get everything right this time, and whether it takes 6 months or 5 years, let's get it right. But we have to be prepared for that, and be patient to get it right. And to strike if necessary.
Carl |
If the reserve limit is 73 and I'm over 70 am I guaranteed to have the rest of the month off or are there circumstances where they can give you a trip on reserve that will take you over the reserve limit? Bueller..
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Originally Posted by Wingnutdal
(Post 1156687)
You've got to be kidding me. This is a general timeline. It's not OUR timeline. Nowhere does it say that this applies to us! The NMB could tell us to pound sand and come back in 3 years!
Are you sure you've done this before. I believe we should use this as a guide, instead of a paid DALPA leaker who lied about what the NMB actually said. Now if you'd prefer to believe something the NMB did NOT say, have at it. Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1156698)
One simple question: Did any of these folks have in their contract (as we do) that mediation MUST be agreed to ~90 days after the contract's amendable date?
Carl |
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