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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 1156962)
Are we going to make more money? I want to make more money. I want to work less for more money, and I want to have more seniority. Let's make these things happen.
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Originally Posted by Phuz
(Post 1156930)
IMO it is shortsighted and naive to think that 850+ 50 seat RJs currently flying today will dissapear because of a confluence of factors that you and many others believe is coming down the road. Remember '00? If you asked someone in '99 or 2000 what their thoughts on the industry were, would anyone have thought it would end up the way it has? Things change.
You don't solve scope by ignoring it while you blindly assume that the current trends are going continue and solve it for us in 5-10 years time. IMO a beneficial solution on scope is FAR more likely if it is proactively achieved versus passively awaited. Power, leverage and $$$ go hand in hand. Ain't no way they are giving up an inch without something very significant in return. Good luck working with them. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1155659)
I kind of have to agree with Alpha, if the CRJ900 and the likes are so great then why aren't startup airlines running to them instead of 737s or in 717s in Spain?
But then you have to ask, why do we have the 255 max pwa allowed long CRJs and short E190s? |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1156983)
Its a fair question you ask. My response is that China may well be the real Canadair target market. Canadair has a JV with China to develop what is designated the C919. Its a transport aircraft that China is developing (actually they are adding a new runway in PVG to test the 919). The C919 will have a cockpit identical to the Canadair product (think airbus commonality).
Cheers George |
Originally Posted by georgetg
(Post 1156987)
The Comac C919 and E-jet by Embraer will share a cockpit, not Bombardier...
Cheers George Bombardier Agrees to Share CSeries Cockpit With China |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1156994)
George; I don't know for sure if you are right, but:
Bombardier Agrees to Share CSeries Cockpit With China UPDATE 1-Bombardier signs cooperative pact with China's Comac | Reuters http://norcaltennisdaily.com/wp-cont...11/09/crow.jpg Cheers George |
Originally Posted by georgetg
(Post 1156996)
sorry scambo, you're right I read it wrong...
UPDATE 1-Bombardier signs cooperative pact with China's Comac | Reuters http://norcaltennisdaily.com/wp-cont...11/09/crow.jpg Cheers George |
Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1156953)
Let me make sure I understand you two: a person trying to understand the implications of current trends in the industry is naive and cracks you up? Trying to determine the extent of our leverage is, somehow, ignoring the problem? Thinking about something, and all the angles, is not proactive? Laying out a theory is predicting the future?
Must be nice to go through life unaffected by trivial pursuits such as reason and observation. To know everything already, that must be great indeed! But if you're offended by the speculation of others, let me suggest that, maybe, APC isn't the right venue for your (greater) talents. And if you are so offended by the mere expressions of other opinions, why not lurk? By all means, we should examine the facts, look at the possibilities, and see how we need to adjust our strategies to meet our objectives. But to forego meaningful pay increases based on a projection of doom and gloom (like we did with the merger)... or to assume the scope problem is going to improve based on a trend/forecast that may or may not continue (like I hope we are not doing now)... well, I think that is extremely foolish. Better to stand up for what we know is right (i.e. professional airline pilots are worth a heck of a lot more than we are currently being paid and Delta pilots should be the only ones flying Delta passengers) and stop outsmarting ourselves by thinking we are economic gurus and business experts. |
Originally Posted by gloopy
(Post 1156872)
They will squeal like typical MBA mercenary hatchet men huffing on the crack pipe of outsourcing that they "can't afford" it even though all of it is a zero cost item one way or another.
We are paying the RJ leases anyway, 100%. That is by far the biggest penalty for canceling a DCI contract. And it costs nothing to sunset all agreements and place a falling cap in line with management's planned reductions anyway. They will squeal that we need more outsourcing, how its good for us, how we can get "bargaining credits" for selling our own jobs down the river, etc. That is their automatically preprogrammed response because outsourcing is a religion to them. It is literally a religion to them. They take their communion in the form of fine brandy and Cuban cigars at the church of their country clubs as they relentlessly pursue outsourcing everything, including and especially their core business, because they honestly lack the intellectual ability to place running a real airline as their first priority except in cases where they are absolutely forced to, and even then you can tell their heart isn't always in it. Syllabus Subject: Tiger Woods, his ex-wife and how it relates to the airline you run. Objective: Falling in love requires a pulse, having a great marriage requires a plan... but having a fun open marriage requires a lawyer, threats, confusion and a prenuptial full of holes!!! Session 1. First, why cheat? First, you enjoyed being you. Free as the wind. You've had a good time being single. Now you're getting big and well, that pilot group is starting to push it's weight around and this whole relationship is just a big old headache now. Your agent says its best if you get married. You don't want too, but you better if you want to go further in this game and especially if you want more endorsements. The bad thing is you know your trophy wife, like your pilots, are going to get old and get expensive. And they're not going to do the things you want them to do especially after you marry. It's going to hurt your game. Meanwhile, someone out there will have a new wife who doesn't nag, dresses hot, never sober... and thus he will be happier than you and do better than you. In the airline industry we call that guy a startup. And his CASM is going to wreck your RASM every time. Unfortunately, it is not legal with the DOJ and DOT to shoot or beat him. So you have no choice but to join em'. Session 2. The ProblemSo get a mistress, also known as outsourcing. It's going to be like having a startup. That mistress will do whatever you want, unlike your wife. When that mistress grows old, get another and repeat. If she gets on a high horse, get multiple ones. Like any airline pilot- have one in every hub and maybe on every continent. At some point, show your wife your mistress. Make them fight it out. It will benefit you. The problem with cheating is financial. Your wife will run off, your costs will increase and you'll have to resort to cheaper and cheaper mistresses. No longer will Hooters work unless you codeshare which won't be allowed but maybe once, so you're going to need to check out the grocery store check out line. Session 3. So now you've got a mess. Not what you wanted eh? What you need now is a prenupt which you probably never thought you'd need because you bought into that old fashioned idea of saying vows about remaining faithful forever and ever amen. You needed to be less Kirk Cameron and more Gene Simmons- refusing to say parts of your vow and not caring. But oh well, you're here now. Session 4. Why not just outsource everything?So we need to get you a prenupt, a scope clause, that allows for an open marriage. The best way to do this after the fact is via blackmail, threatening a divorce or buying off her lawyer. It will work. Don't be an idiot. You're dealing with... ladies of the night. They'll run off with everything you got if you let them in the house! Especially if they bring their boyfriend. You can't just be a broker. Session 5. Oh those pesky questions:You need a wife. You just need to warp her sensibilities to the point she believes this is just how a marriage goes in the big leagues. Btw, you can measure your success by how much she tells the other wives that this is normal at the top. So recap. Make sure your wife doesn't give up. Free her from the little stuff that the girl at the grocery store check out loves to do. Encourage your wife to stay lean and mean, work out at the gym, etc., in the hopes you'll turn from your ways. Convince her you will and the good stuff, the big stuff she dreams of, is right around the corner. But dont be a fool. Dont give in. Leave the big big stuff to the mistresses outside the country. What if she threatens to leave? They can't. It's not legal. Session 6. Learn to Give what you didn't want anywaysBut play the game. Placate them with "this is a marriage", give and take, blah blah blah. Just never give her more than you have too. What if she wants you to quit having mistresses? Nonstarter. If you do that, you're back to growing old together and that whole startup thing comes back. Besides the minute she realizes she can quit the gym she will. What if she walks out? Well, at this point cut her off financially, scare her, play to her emotions, call her a slut in public, get her to the point she believes this cheating thing is acceptable. It's best if you play the mind games, for every 10 mean things you say, say 1 good thing so she says "he's not bad after all." What if she wraps your sand wedge around your face and goes to the press? Well, you're screwed then. Before you get the sand wedge to the face, learn to give up something. She might back down. It's a funny thing, if you become abusive you'll get shot eventually. Try not to be abusive, give a little here and there. It'll make you feel good when theyre like WOW! A NEW CAR BROCHURE! AND ICE CREAM! Oh boy, you do love me. Well go have fun tonight with your friends, ill be home watching Jersey Shore, The Bachelor, or Glee or Grey's Anatomy or American Idol. Session 7. Final Exam... Peer review boards. ------------- Look, this ^^^^ is just in fun. Let me be honest for a moment, if we went to RA on C2012 and said SWA scope and RA wholeheartedly agrees, I bet he'd be fired. He could be like the husband who doesn't want to cheat but if he stops then his buddies will give him concrete flippers. Stopping outsourcing is a nonstarter I bet, we can attack it head on as we should but we also need to figure out a way to make outsourcing so unattractive and SWA scope a mutual goal. Using the analogy above and to Bar's point earlier, a legal obligation not to mess around isn't going to be enough as that can be undone. We're going to have to create an attitude change to the notion that outsourcing is a good thing. So much so that even looking at L&G about Delta underboob is against your better nature. To me, a marriage was never ever intended to be shared. Abraham having a wife and a mistress was a bad idea then and it's a bad idea now. There is more joy and emotional peace in a healthy marriage than in a screwed up one. I think we can all agree to that and we're bound to that idea, now we just need them to agree that a marriage is not what we have. We have a "Big Love" marriage and it ain't right. So what's the solution? Well, I need a shower. I feel dirty writing this. Evidently, I could never be a lawyer. :D sorry newk! |
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
(Post 1157003)
But to forego meaningful pay increases based on a projection of doom and gloom (like we did with the merger)... or to assume the scope problem is going to improve based on a trend/forecast that may or may not continue (like I hope we are not doing now)... well, I think that is extremely foolish.
I think the problem with constantly trying to sell a product, is that you think everyone on here is also selling a product. Some of us believe (naively, no doubt) that this is just a place for conversation. I was simply commenting on the factors that I see coming together that might bring us leverage. I wasn't trying to paint any particular color picture, or trying to conjure up any particular feeling. And certainly not trying to suggest that deep thoughts are a substitute for planning or principles. You might want to back it off a notch, and just read what people write, not try to get into imagined motives. It would make for a more streamlined conversation. I think there are factors enhancing our scope leverage right now. STOP. Don't you agree? STOP. OVER. |
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