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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

LeineLodge 05-11-2012 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1186251)
Its a horrible quagmire we are in. The devil is in the details, and we need to see what, if anything comes of these rumors. One thing is fore certain, we have a ton lose on the top side if we choose to play poker. We, as a group, need to decide though our vote if, more RJ's are an acceptable price to pay to make sure or top end growth does not disappear before our eyes.

In a thought, the whole situation sucks!

I agree with you in principle, but apparently we have something that mgmt wants. That makes me (cautiously) optimistic that we still have some control and all hope is not lost.

For ALL the reasons you mentioned above, we need to very carefully evaluate any agreement that comes. In the end it may be a choice of "least bad" but I'm certain that our reps (at least the ATL and DTW guys that I've spoken with) are painfully aware of the scope situation on the bottom/top. We have no choice but to trust their judgement to direct this thing in the right direction. If they violate that trust (very unlikely IMO) then we vote it down: simple as that.

Maybe it's because it's Friday and the weather is nice, but call me half-full today :D

georgetg 05-11-2012 08:40 AM

Reserve Rules Redux

The Good:

Additional X-day in a category with at least 20 percent reserve staffing.
This is a good, no-cost item for the company giving day off to overstaffed category.

Reserve guarantee increased to 72:00 – 80:00 (variable with ALV)
This is a great improvement to Delta pilot reserve pay. The change results in approximately 76:00 average guarantee, a gain of 6:00 of pay. This brings our contract to the level of the top tier industry reserve guarantees.

Ability to pick up additional short call period for increased reserve guarantee
Good, permits in-base pilot to fill up on SC reducing need for commuter's SC, helps pilots meet new higher guarantee sooner than without this change. The devil is in the details. Will the SC credit be valued at ADP rates?

The Bad:
X-days increased to 13/14 for off-season remain at 12/13 for the summer peak
This looks like a win on paper, more reserve days off in the winter, status quo in the summer. But when compounded by the conversion of July and August to 30 day bid periods, the change removes two off days from the busy summer season. Obviously July and August are still 31 day months, but the number of x-days is reduced from 13 to 12. During less busy months the gain of an extra day off will give reserve pilots more ability to schedule their month, likely to result in the conversion of a standard long-call day to an off-day from a pilot schedule standpoint. Conversely during the peak summer period in July and August, reserves will lose a combined two days off while being exposed to extra short-call days and a higher max reserve cap. The net result is a reduction in reserves' quality of life at a time when scheduling is most likely to test contractual limits.

The Ugly:
ALV increased by one hour for all pilots.

Not technically a reserve change but increasing the ALV by one hour compounds and multiplies the negative effects on staffing many of the new proposed rules will have. The increase is 12-hours per pilot per year. 80 pilots flying one extra hour will produce 960 extra hours per year eliminate one in 80 pilot positions or 100-150 pilots company wide.

Max reserve changed from ALV to ALV + 15:00, reserve "full" at guarantee.
This is how we pay for the increased reserve guarantee. Work more, get paid more.
While a higher reserve guarantee is welcome, the increase is earned, no given to reserves and can't really be categorized as a contractual improvement. Under the current system any flying beyond the cap of 70/72 is voluntary and for extra pay. Under the new rules the extra flying is mandatory and doesn't result in increased pay or days off until reaching 80/95 hours. Scheduling will be able to place up to 23:00 of additional flying per reserve before needing to resort to green slip coverage. The effect for all pilots, will be fewer green slips and reduced availability of double pay for line-holders and payback days for reserves.
Reserves are staffed for the busy time of the year. At a minimum the higher ALV average of 76 hours per year eliminates the need for one in 12 reserves, year round. During the peak travel season, a category with 40 reserve pilots can produce a max of 2800 hours under the current PWA, with the new proposed rules 35 pilots can do the same job...The reduction in green-slips will also negatively affect the manning formula, locking in a lower pilot requirement.

Short Call increased to seven for bid periods with a reserve guarantee of 75-80
This is nothing short of unbelievable. The reduction from 8 to 6 short-calls was one of four key gains of the Joint Contract highlighted by Lee Moak in his Chairmans letter in June 2008 and presented as a significant quality of life improvement in the associated Negotiators Notepad signed by Tim O'Malley. It was a hard-fought contractual gain. And while the new flight-time duty-time regulations will force all domestic airlines with lesser work rules to improve their working agreements, Delta pilots will see an increase in short-call days. With the extra day of duty, domestic pilots will see their short call extended by 12 hours during the high ALV months, while international pilots will have their hours extended by 14. For a pilot that commutes this change could easily come with the loss of an associated day-off. Unfortunately this will also have a negative effect on the additional manning that would have been required if the new FTDT regulations were applied to the current PWA reserve rules.

The Bottom Line:
Overall the proposed changes are a Faustian deal, where quality of life and Delta pilot positions are traded for the potential of higher pay. Reducing days off, raising the max monthly cap and adding a short call day during the peak season where pilot schedules are already maxed out seems particularly ill-advised. It is hard to imagine a pilot with a full-time reserve schedule being part of the deliberations to generate the reserve changes proposed in the Negotiators Notepad. Especially considering the impact of lower manning will have on retarding a reserve pilots ability to advance to line-holder.

Outlook:
Many of the proposed changes in the Negotiator’s Notepad show a drive to reduce staffing requirements. This effects all pilots, not just reserves. Some of the adverse effects of the proposed reserve rules could be mitigated by improvements to other sections. Reserves' trip assignments should have the same credit as line-holders'. Improvements to trip/duty rigs could help trips become more valuable for all helping line-holders and reserves alike. Increased credit for vacation, sick and training days would also help reach guarantee sooner. Finally valuing short-call duty no different than duty on rotation would go a long way in reducing the potential adverse impact the proposed rules would have in their current form.

Cheers
George

Geardownflaps30 05-11-2012 08:41 AM


Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1186214)
With the extreme 'flexibility" DL likes to operate all of DCI with, are all (much less any) DCI carrier schedules fully loaded into the fall master schedule yet? Comair could very well be last anyway because of their dysfunctional role as DCI's accumulator and last minute lift provider of last resort.

If they are truly not on the schedule but everyone else is, it would be eazy to verify the implied rumor by looking at which DCI carrier suddenly grew at least by the amout of 27 CRJ70-76 seaters at Comair, and probably at least some of the 100 CRJ50 seaters as well, though probably not most or all.

So if the fall schedule is fully loaded but Comair has nothing, which DCI carrier(s) are suddenly up by 29 large CRJ's and maybe a few 50's?

Comair is in the schedule. Looked it up myself. Just a rumor.

acl65pilot 05-11-2012 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1186261)
Reserve Rules Redux

The Good:

Additional X-day in a category with at least 20 percent reserve staffing.
This is a good, no-cost item for the company giving day off to overstaffed category.

Reserve guarantee increased to 72:00 – 80:00 (variable with ALV)
This is a great improvement to Delta pilot reserve pay. The change results in approximately 76:00 average guarantee, a gain of 6:00 of pay. This brings our contract to the level of the top tier industry reserve guarantees.

Ability to pick up additional short call period for increased reserve guarantee
Good, permits in-base pilot to fill up on SC reducing need for commuter's SC, helps pilots meet new higher guarantee sooner than without this change. The devil is in the details. Will the SC credit be valued at ADP rates?

The Bad:
X-days increased to 13/14 for off-season remain at 12/13 for the summer peak
This looks like a win on paper, more reserve days off in the winter, status quo in the summer. But when compounded by the conversion of July and August to 30 day bid periods, the change removes two off days from the busy summer season. Obviously July and August are still 31 day months, but the number of x-days is reduced from 13 to 12. During less busy months the gain of an extra day off will give reserve pilots more ability to schedule their month, likely to result in the conversion of a standard long-call day to an off-day from a pilot schedule standpoint. Conversely during the peak summer period in July and August, reserves will lose a combined two days off while being exposed to extra short-call days and a higher max reserve cap. The net result is a reduction in reserves' quality of life at a time when scheduling is most likely to test contractual limits.

The Ugly:
ALV increased by one hour for all pilots.

Not technically a reserve change but increasing the ALV by one hour compounds and multiplies the negative effects on staffing many of the new proposed rules will have. The increase is 12-hours per pilot per year. 80 pilots flying one extra hour will produce 960 extra hours per year eliminate one in 80 pilot positions or 100-150 pilots company wide.

Max reserve changed from ALV to ALV + 15:00, reserve "full" at guarantee.
This is how we pay for the increased reserve guarantee. Work more, get paid more.
While a higher reserve guarantee is welcome, the increase is earned, no given to reserves and can't really be categorized as a contractual improvement. Under the current system any flying beyond the cap of 70/72 is voluntary and for extra pay. Under the new rules the extra flying is mandatory and doesn't result in increased pay or days off until reaching 80/95 hours. Scheduling will be able to place up to 23:00 of additional flying per reserve before needing to resort to green slip coverage. The effect for all pilots, will be fewer green slips and reduced availability of double pay for line-holders and payback days for reserves.
Reserves are staffed for the busy time of the year. At a minimum the higher ALV average of 76 hours per year eliminates the need for one in 12 reserves, year round. During the peak travel season, a category with 40 reserve pilots can produce a max of 2800 hours under the current PWA, with the new proposed rules 35 pilots can do the same job...The reduction in green-slips will also negatively affect the manning formula, locking in a lower pilot requirement.

Short Call increased to seven for bid periods with a reserve guarantee of 75-80
This is nothing short of unbelievable. The reduction from 8 to 6 short-calls was one of four key gains of the Joint Contract highlighted by Lee Moak in his Chairmans letter in June 2008 and presented as a significant quality of life improvement in the associated Negotiators Notepad signed by Tim O'Malley. It was a hard-fought contractual gain. And while the new flight-time duty-time regulations will force all domestic airlines with lesser work rules to improve their working agreements, Delta pilots will see an increase in short-call days. With the extra day of duty, domestic pilots will see their short call extended by 12 hours during the high ALV months, while international pilots will have their hours extended by 14. For a pilot that commutes this change could easily come with the loss of an associated day-off. Unfortunately this will also have a negative effect on the additional manning that would have been required if the new FTDT regulations were applied to the current PWA reserve rules.

The Bottom Line:
Overall the proposed changes are a Faustian deal, where quality of life and Delta pilot positions are traded for the potential of higher pay. Reducing days off, raising the max monthly cap and adding a short call day during the peak season where pilot schedules are already maxed out seems particularly ill-advised. It is hard to imagine a pilot with a full-time reserve schedule being part of the deliberations to generate the reserve changes proposed in the Negotiators Notepad. Especially considering the impact of lower manning will have on retarding a reserve pilots ability to advance to line-holder.

Outlook:
Many of the proposed changes in the Negotiator’s Notepad show a drive to reduce staffing requirements. This effects all pilots, not just reserves. Some of the adverse effects of the proposed reserve rules could be mitigated by improvements to other sections. Reserves' trip assignments should have the same credit as line-holders'. Improvements to trip/duty rigs could help trips become more valuable for all helping line-holders and reserves alike. Increased credit for vacation, sick and training days would also help reach guarantee sooner. Finally valuing short-call duty no different than duty on rotation would go a long way in reducing the potential adverse impact the proposed rules would have in their current form.

Cheers
George

Going forward, not sure we will see 20% reserve staffing in any month. Even in a now growth scheme we are going to be short for 20 years.

acl65pilot 05-11-2012 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1186258)
I agree with you in principle, but apparently we have something that mgmt wants. That makes me (cautiously) optimistic that we still have some control and all hope is not lost.

For ALL the reasons you mentioned above, we need to very carefully evaluate any agreement that comes. In the end it may be a choice of "least bad" but I'm certain that our reps (at least the ATL and DTW guys that I've spoken with) are painfully aware of the scope situation on the bottom/top. We have no choice but to trust their judgement to direct this thing in the right direction. If they violate that trust (very unlikely IMO) then we vote it down: simple as that.

Maybe it's because it's Friday and the weather is nice, but call me half-full today :D


We do, the ability to allow them to get these jets, and cpa's redone now to hit the debt level in short order, not a year and a half after the fireworks are over.

There are some other things that we could also change in the pwa to help facilitate overseas stuff, like foreign basing issues. That is not a big enough item for section 6, the DCI stuff with debt reduction, allows everything else.

Wrt to Section 1. If the rumors are true, we will either sell 76 seat jets with a cure provided, or allow the current sale of top end flying though the loopholes to continue.

georgetg 05-11-2012 08:49 AM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1186265)
Going forward, not sure we will see 20% reserve staffing in any month. Even in a now growth scheme we are going to be short for 20 years.

that's the rub, making decisions by looking in the rear-view mirror and based on current status quo will result in reducing the positive impact growth and retirements bring. That is the danger.

Work-rules and scope are typically the more enduring aspects of a contract...

Cheers
George

Bucking Bar 05-11-2012 08:49 AM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1186251)
Bar;
On a the most basic level you are correct.

Oh, say it again, say it again :)

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1186251)
Bar;
On a the most basic level you are correct. ...

But wait a minute ...

The decision to hold strong on 76 seats may be the correct answer for unity, and unionism ...
Kindly do not assume that I accept one of President Moak's jets to be flown by someone other than a Delta pilot, much less 153 or 255, or more. Don't confuse me with Sam I Am who eventually did decide he liked Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like outsourcing here or there. I don't like outsourcing anywhere. Matters not to me if it has 1 seat, 100 seats, or 500. The principle of unity is what matters and what directly empowers us to negotiate this contract and future contracts.

Again, the reason we are screwed now and the reason our current strategy will screw us later is because we are stuck in the mindset of dividing and allocating rather than looking at the big picture and seeking unity.

We've simply got the wrong goals and with the wrong goals will seek incorrect solutions. We need to look first at how to unify our flying by ensuring Delta seniority list pilots perform that work. Our MEC has never made that a goal.

georgetg 05-11-2012 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1186270)
Don't confuse me with Sam I Am who eventually did decide he liked Green Eggs and Ham. I do not like outsourcing here or there. I don't like outsourcing anywhere.

That really is brilliant!


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1186270)
Matters not to me if it has 1 seat, 100 seats, or 500.

I happen to think we are in a triage type situation when it comes to scope...

It would be nice if our current negotiating strategy would be one of expanding and building upon hard-fought gains from previous contracts, instead of "monetizing past gains" some with TOs signature on them, in exchange with other items....


Cheers
George

Jack Bauer 05-11-2012 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1186261)
[SIZE="4"]Reserve Rules Redux
Max reserve changed from ALV to ALV + 15:00, reserve "full" at guarantee.
This is how we pay for the increased reserve guarantee. Work more, get paid more.
While a higher reserve guarantee is welcome, the increase is earned, no given to reserves and can't really be categorized as a contractual improvement. Under the current system any flying beyond the cap of 70/72 is voluntary and for extra pay. Under the new rules the extra flying is mandatory and doesn't result in increased pay or days off until reaching 80/95 hours. Scheduling will be able to place up to 23:00 of additional flying per reserve before needing to resort to green slip coverage. The effect for all pilots, will be fewer green slips and reduced availability of double pay for line-holders and payback days for reserves.
Reserves are staffed for the busy time of the year. At a minimum the higher ALV average of 76 hours per year eliminates the need for one in 12 reserves, year round. During the peak travel season, a category with 40 reserve pilots can produce a max of 2800 hours under the current PWA, with the new proposed rules 35 pilots can do the same job...The reduction in green-slips will also negatively affect the manning formula, locking in a lower pilot requirement.

Short Call increased to seven for bid periods with a reserve guarantee of 75-80
This is nothing short of unbelievable. The reduction from 8 to 6 short-calls was one of four key gains of the Joint Contract highlighted by Lee Moak in his Chairmans letter in June 2008 and presented as a significant quality of life improvement in the associated Negotiators Notepad signed by Tim O'Malley. It was a hard-fought contractual gain. And while the new flight-time duty-time regulations will force all domestic airlines with lesser work rules to improve their working agreements, Delta pilots will see an increase in short-call days. With the extra day of duty, domestic pilots will see their short call extended by 12 hours during the high ALV months, while international pilots will have their hours extended by 14. For a pilot that commutes this change could easily come with the loss of an associated day-off. Unfortunately this will also have a negative effect on the additional manning that would have been required if the new FTDT regulations were applied to the current PWA reserve rules.

The Bottom Line:George

These two are non starters for me. Too much long term damage to quality of life. Not everybody wants to be on the road the majority of their life. In a previous life with another carrier that had the ability to fly their pilots more hours I can tell you it was absolutely exhausting.

Delta will eventually short staff this airline and you will be owned (flying and away from home more) than you ever wished you were. As you say these rules also remove the ability for those wanting to bump pay (premium pay) to make a more money in a short period of time. Bottom line, with these rules most will be flying more hours whether they like it or not. It removes choices.

Bucking Bar 05-11-2012 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1186197)
In this section 6, the first real one done in the the accelerated information age we are in, the response to NNP is lightning quick and likely has been received by all parties at the table.

Isn't social media great?

Arab Spring anyone??

Several posts resonated with this idea. However, the Negotiating Committee does not work for us. They take rather strict direction from the MEC. Our MEC, as a political body, is manipulated by the very effective lobbying effort which originates from our local ALPA Admin, who are highly regarded as the experienced subject matter experts.

Scope is a perfect example of this in progress. Pilots told ALPA they wanted better pay (1) and improved scope (2). Knowing that scope is what will have to be traded (the only leverage we have, really) the admin started lobbying. Fast forward to today and Reps that ran on scope are saying "the pilots really want pay." Ask the follow up question and there are muddy the water statements about production balances and reducing the total count of Rj's for some completely undefined improvement in Joint Venture language. Push them even harder and they'll either tell you they can't tell you, or candidly admit not knowing. That's effective lobbying from our Admin! Our Reps are disoriented from their initial positions and trusting the Experts.

The problem with an "Arab Spring" event is having the infrastructure ready to replace the MEC Admin. Most of the Admin works very well (good) and is obviously effective at subverting the democratic process (bad). A clean sweep of the Reps and Chair would be required to blast them out of position. That is very unlikely. Then consensus would have to be built to move in he correct direction, which would be no small feat either.

I've decided the best track is to try to change their minds and the minds of those likely to replace them. Social Media and communication with your Reps is extremely important. The Reps have two ears and hopefully have a line pilot completely covering the frequency at all times. We have to lobby our Reps, just as our Admin does.


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