Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1159940)

I wouldn't call my friend that won a Field's Medal in Ubermath to mentor him just yet. Its not exactly hard to find CEO's that have doubled a company's share price from 2008-2012. Pretty much any of them that have a pulse have those bragging rights.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1159962)

I can't remember if it was LuvJockey or not, but an SWA pilot posted a link to the article where the mistake was outlined and admitted to. It stated that the 2011 data would have correct total SWA pilot numbers. The 2010 data did not.

Carl

Originally Posted by LuvJockey (Post 1074739)

Sorry to butt into the Delta thread, but I'll make it quick. The $166,000 average salary that keeps getting quoted here is incorrect. The MIT website has made a gross error in their calculations. If you look at 2009, it says that average SWA pilot pay was $176,000 and dropped to $166,000 in 2010. That is simply not correct.

There seems to be an error in the total number of pilots at SWA. Their charts show a sudden jump of 5.2 crews per aircraft to 5.9 from 2009 to 2010. That number is not correct. MIT shows that SWA hired around 800 pilots in 2010, making their calculations wildly inaccurate. Actual number of pilots hired in 2010 was zero.

If you compare the total cockpit cost per block hour for narrowbody equipment, SWA cockpit cost per hour rose from $630 to $691. SWA's scheduling practices and contract did not change appreciably in 2010 other than a pay rate increase. To compare, Delta currently shows $552 total cost per hour for 2010.

Anyway, the $166,000 average salary figure is not correct. If you use the correct number of pilots, the average SWA salary is actually well above $186,000 per year. My past history of Delta bashing aside, that is the real info.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0EQUIPMENT.htm

Originally Posted by sinca3 (Post 1159977)

If the next guy looks to be doing the same thing then speak up and ask for a leg or legs other than ATL. I have been lucky and 90% of the guys I fly with fly the first leg then we go two's from there. If the guy is a big enough douche to say no after your request, then I'd call in sick and be done with it!

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1159986)

A SID to an ILS. You want something more? As the pavement approaches, gently raise the nose.

If you do a lot of approaches to the same runway, you can shorten your briefing to "do you have any questions?":D

Originally Posted by FmrFreightDog (Post 1160007)

True, but I like to complain, so.... :)

Originally Posted by padre2992 (Post 1159981)

Carl, how about this from the older valid 2009 Form 41 data:

Going back to 2009 and adding the yearly pay raises since then.

Form 41 average 2009 Wages and Salaries

Delta $132,374
SWA $176725

We know that SWA received a 2010 pay raise of between 1% and 3% based on operating margin (I used 2% in the calcuations), and a guaranteed raise in 2011 of 2%, and nothing in 2012 as their contract is amendable shortly.

Delta pilots received the following changes in the same time period: 4%, 4%, and 4%

That brings the wages and salaries numbers to:

Delta $148,902
SWA $183,865

So using the valid 2009 Form 41 data, the average SWA pilot is currently 23.5% ahead of an average Delta pilot.

If I contribute 2% of my pay to my 401k, Delta matches 2% and also adds another 12%.
If an SWA pilot contributes 2% of his pay, SWA matches 2%, but adds nothing else.

Combining those two major components of our compensation, it would appear the average SWA pilot is about 11.5% ahead of the average Delta pilot (23.5% - 12%). I guess that is close to where Roger value comes from.

But the question remains, is the median Delta First Officer on the 737? Is the median Delta Captain on the 737?

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1159986)

A SID to an ILS. You want something more? As the pavement approaches, gently raise the nose.

If you do a lot of approaches to the same runway, you can shorten your briefing to "do you have any questions?":D

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1160020)

It must have been a while since you've done domestic MD-88 type flying. There's a lot of difference between being spoon-fed headings, altitudes, and airspeeds coming into ATL and being able plan your own descent and fly an energy management, efficient approach into someplace like SAV for example. There's also the occasional fun of flying something like the River Visual into DCA.

I can totally understand why someone would get tired of having to do all the ATL legs on a trip. As a Captain, I have almost always done the first leg and then suggested that we do two at a time after that. Most F/O's seem to appreciate it. The trip I'm on right now has a deadhead leg right in the middle... so we're just alternating. The F/O ends up being the ATL guy for the first half of the trip and then I'm the ATL guy for the second half. That works too.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1160024)

2001 since my last domestic trip at DAL...of my career.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1160014)

The numbers posted on most sites are total pilot costs. That means that while the average pilot might only need 11 percent with the difference in the average fleet sizes it would take a larger raise to reach parity with SWA. There are a lot of ways to look at the data.
There is a lot going on at the moment. It looks like we might well have a contract to vote on in the near term. I suspect however its not going to be what most pilots like. The question however becomes what strategy puts the most money in your pocket. We take a 3 or 4 year contract now or enter the traditional section 6 process and take 4 or 5 years to produce a contract. Each pilot will have to decide for himself which option is better for his family.