i couldn't care less about that and neither should you. The only thing any of the reps should care about is backing the line pilots they represent. If the negotiators get it wrong, send them back to the table until they get it right...regardless of whether you voted for the negotiator or not.

But your previous statement is exactly what the MEC does quite routinely. Specifically, pressure our reps to "back the negotiators" or "show unity", rather than vote the will of their members. Your post was a perfect example.

Carl

 

Call your reps and call your friends who agree and get them to call their reps. This is a BFD and needs to be preempted by as many line dogs like us as possible.

 

Exactamundo!!

Carl

 

OK, cool.

Carl

 

They are not related. Not even a littl bit. The company is figuring why not ask them to continue to make the same mistake they consistently make. Why wouldn't they ask?

But the realistic monetary "savings" of 35-50 (which means 50) large RJ's prostituted out to the back stabbers and ace dealers of the industry are almost nothing compared to operating those 35-50 large RJ's at mainline...or at least with mainline pilots.

The possible deal for 88-100 or so B717's is a much, much larger deal that dwarfs the fuzzy accounting "savings" of operating them at the cut throat low ballers. Even a $100/hr pilot differential monetized over the CASM is so laughably insignificant that there is no way a large, super sweet deal on B717's which the company envisions a use for would have anything realistically to do with "needing" the pilot cost savings from another few dozen large RJ's.

If they try and make the claim that this is about some fake phony accounting sorcery to "get the leases off the books" of the large RJ's they want, our response should be "cool story, bro, but we're flying them under our contract...PERIOD!"

If they ask, they are just asking because they can. Outsourcing is a religion to them and its times like these that they go to church and pray the hardest.

 

No one should support what the negotiators produce, regardless of if they are elected or appointed or how political it is, if the final product sells our more DC-9-10 replacement jets to alter ego labor busting C scale airlines.

If they bring us something like that and then threaten "well we'll quit and you'll have to start from scratch" then let them quit, go back to the line under our current book like the rest of us and we'll start over and do it right.

 

Spot on, Carl.

Who cares who the negotiators are or who they are affiliated with? I care what they produce.

 

I haven't heard that type of pressure tactic, it seems weak and ineffectual, so I doubt it's routinely used, unless of course if the reps are weak, in which case maybe it's used on the weaker reps.

But if a TA does come back, and it's the best the negotiators say they can do, and it's a POS, then why send the same guys back who produced a POS TA, why not get guys who can produce an acceptable TA? And what does it say about the judgment of the reps who were so out in front politicking for this team and vouching for them? If someone recommends someone for a job and that individual isn't up to the task, then it doesn't look so good on the guy who recommended him either. Just saying.

 

I am not really ready to jump into any debate about who or what as far as negotiations. But I did just do the only real option I have and strongly recommend each please do the same. EMAIL YOUR REP right now! Career Critical!!


Lets just be sure our voices are heard over and over and over..... I for one do not want to be thinking I should have done more...... Just sayin

 

Although this sounds good in concept, as history has shown, the reality will be quite different. First, once the Negotiating Committee reaches a Tentative Agreement with the Company, it is too late! Once the MEC Administration (through the NegCom) has agreed with the Company...it will be delivered to the LEC Reps for a vote. Our Reps may galantly fight with the MEC leadership with the best of intentions, but ultimately, the Reps will be strong armed* into ratifying what has already been agreed to in the TA. Now there might be a few hold out's (who will be forever labelled "radicals'), but it will ultimately be ratified by the MEC.

Negotiating 101: Never send a TA back...the NegCom maintains that doing so destroys their credibility. (Remember the NegCom is all-knowing, so they will only agree to the TA when they believe they have squeezed the Company for everything possible, from a gentlemen's perspective.) Some may remember this 'first rule of negotiation' was seemingly violated in C2K. The threat of a strike was so great, the NegCom did go back to the Company for more, however, they added only a few (5?) low value items...it seemed more of a token attempt at renegotiation and strong arming the Company, to appease the angry pilots.

Once the POS TA is passed on to the pilots, the sell job begins: We - the pilots - MUST vote yes or else... (insert apocalyptic scenario). In C2k we were told we'd lose everything - something like: a grossly inferior contract would be imposed as punishment and we would lose all work rules and retro pay). We never did strike - and we won't this time.* (ALPA will never allow it under Moak, who clearly has higher personal career aspirations than ALPA National; read: cooperation).

So again, once something is TA'd by the NegCom, even a TA containing scope concessions...you will be voting on it. Unfortunately by then, the first rule of negotiating is shown to be true. Because...basically the union leadership has already shown their hand to the Company as to what they are willing to agree on. Even if the pilots turn it down and a strike threatens (though it hasn't/won't)...any improvements will be breadcrumbs at that point.

Those here who say scope is a definite no vote for them, I understand...it makes us feel good in the near time...but enjoy it while you can. Because when it comes to the MEC/ALPA National coordinated sell job, our voices will be drowned out. Scope loss has been an issue here for two decades and each contract erodes it more...unfortunately, so too will this contract because there will be just enough guys who buy what is being sold. The sell job will always cloud the judgment of just enough that a simple UP/DOWN vote is not so easy for a majority.

Remember, once it becomes a TA...UNFORTUNATELY, it is too late!

* Note to ACL: before you discount what I've written and say I don't give the LEC Reps enough credit... please respectfully reserve judgment until you directly experience a few section 6 negotiations on this property as a Delta pilot.