Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-15-2012 | 06:54 PM
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I doubt it. If it passes, then ALPA stays, if it doesn't, then we have a chance to either recall our reps, vote in new guys during an election, or keep the ones you got if you like them and they run again. DPA isn't a credible alternative and I doubt we'll join the IBT. JMO
04-15-2012 | 07:03 PM
Back on TDY
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From: 747-400 Captain
Its not as simple as that. In some cases TA's are sent to the membership when the MEC and NC know they will be voted down. Sometimes the MEC/NC want a no vote on a TA for political capital, and sometimes the NMB even demands it in order to make progress or to get released. Its a lot more politically expedient to point to a fresh super majority NO vote than to continually take the word of half a table full of the same people every day claiming to speak for several thousand.
And sometimes the MEC/NC is just wrong. Rubber stamping a POS just because its a TA is far from an automatic, mandatory predetermined conclusion.
And sometimes the MEC/NC is just wrong. Rubber stamping a POS just because its a TA is far from an automatic, mandatory predetermined conclusion.
Carl
04-15-2012 | 08:53 PM
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From: DAL 330
I am not sure that I understand your question. What you are describing above sounds like what we now have - a very loosely written section one with a lot of loopholes - so I am not sure it would constitute a loosening of Scope or just the status-quo.
Scoop
04-15-2012 | 09:33 PM
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
As long as there is a domestic codeshare with AS the "line in the sand" about 76-seats at DCI seems academic to me:
I want that type of scope closed, pronto. Same goes for Virgin Australia and the imminent JV:
In return Delta can place it's code on unlimited VA flights so long as it's not more than 175 pax
In speaking to other pilots recently I noticed that many seem unaware or uninformed about these arrangements, perhaps because the side of the plane doesn't sport the name Delta "as part of a phrase," but the threat from domestic codeshare and international JVs is real and we are contractually naked when it comes to either...
As crappy as the current 3-year open compliance window is for our AFKLM/AZ JV, the rest of that agreement still is some of the best codeshare language we have. Close the 3 year window and make it right and I won't have complaints...
Looking ahead debating the 76-seat conundrum seems petty considering multinational JVs.
What if Delta entered into a JV with Emirates tomorrow?
As it stands today our PWA, Delta could place 175 pax on every Emirates flight...so long as there were 4 Delta flights per week to DXB,
Closing that loophole is a much more pressing concern. What is the CASM for Emirates on the 777-300ER, or the A380?
Cheers
George
- AS can carry 86 pax per plane, DCI caps out at 76
- AS can perform up to 25% of all hub-to-hub flying, DCI is limited to 6%
I want that type of scope closed, pronto. Same goes for Virgin Australia and the imminent JV:
- VA gets 3 LAX Australia flights, DAL get one
- VA flies 777-300, DAL flies 777-200
- Vigin Australia pilots connect beyond pax in Australia
- In the US AS, DCI and Delta share beyond passengers
In return Delta can place it's code on unlimited VA flights so long as it's not more than 175 pax
In speaking to other pilots recently I noticed that many seem unaware or uninformed about these arrangements, perhaps because the side of the plane doesn't sport the name Delta "as part of a phrase," but the threat from domestic codeshare and international JVs is real and we are contractually naked when it comes to either...
As crappy as the current 3-year open compliance window is for our AFKLM/AZ JV, the rest of that agreement still is some of the best codeshare language we have. Close the 3 year window and make it right and I won't have complaints...
Looking ahead debating the 76-seat conundrum seems petty considering multinational JVs.
What if Delta entered into a JV with Emirates tomorrow?
As it stands today our PWA, Delta could place 175 pax on every Emirates flight...so long as there were 4 Delta flights per week to DXB,
Closing that loophole is a much more pressing concern. What is the CASM for Emirates on the 777-300ER, or the A380?
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 04-15-2012 at 09:47 PM.
04-15-2012 | 09:40 PM
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From: B757/767
As long as there is a domestic codeshare with AS the "line in the sand" about 76-seats at DCI seems academic to me:
AS can carry 86 pax per plane, DCI caps out at 76
AS can perform up to 25% of all hub-to-hub flying, DCI is limited to 6%
So in a nutshell AS can do more than four times the hub-to-hub flying compared to what DCI is permitted to fly, and SEA and LAX are specifically excluded as hubs...
I want that type of scope closed, pronto.
Same goes for Virgin Australia and the imminent JV:
VA gets 3 LAX Australia flights, DAL get one
VA flies 777-300, DAL flies 777-200
Vigin Australia pilots connect beyond pax in Australia
In the US AS, DCI and Delta share beyond passengers
All of this is possible as long as Delta maintains 4 flights/week to Australia.
In return Delta can place it's code on unlimited VA flights so long as it's not more than 175 pax
In speaking to other pilots recently I noticed that many seem unaware or uninformed about these arrangements, perhaps because the side of the plane doesn't sport the name Delta "as part of a phrase," but the threat from domestic codeshare and international JVs is real and we are contractually naked when it comes to either...
As crappy as the current 3-year open compliance window is for our AFKLM/AZ JV, the rest of that agreement still is some of the best codeshare language we have. Close the 3 year window and make it right and I won't have complaints...
Looking ahead debating the 76-seat conundrum seems petty considering multinational JVs. What if Delta made a JV with Emirates tomorrow? As long as there were 4 flights a week to DXB, Delta could place 175 pax on every Emirates flight... Closing that loophole is a much more pressing concern. What is the CASM for Emirates on the 777-300ER, or the A380?
Cheers
George
AS can carry 86 pax per plane, DCI caps out at 76
AS can perform up to 25% of all hub-to-hub flying, DCI is limited to 6%
So in a nutshell AS can do more than four times the hub-to-hub flying compared to what DCI is permitted to fly, and SEA and LAX are specifically excluded as hubs...
I want that type of scope closed, pronto.
Same goes for Virgin Australia and the imminent JV:
VA gets 3 LAX Australia flights, DAL get one
VA flies 777-300, DAL flies 777-200
Vigin Australia pilots connect beyond pax in Australia
In the US AS, DCI and Delta share beyond passengers
All of this is possible as long as Delta maintains 4 flights/week to Australia.
In return Delta can place it's code on unlimited VA flights so long as it's not more than 175 pax
In speaking to other pilots recently I noticed that many seem unaware or uninformed about these arrangements, perhaps because the side of the plane doesn't sport the name Delta "as part of a phrase," but the threat from domestic codeshare and international JVs is real and we are contractually naked when it comes to either...
As crappy as the current 3-year open compliance window is for our AFKLM/AZ JV, the rest of that agreement still is some of the best codeshare language we have. Close the 3 year window and make it right and I won't have complaints...
Looking ahead debating the 76-seat conundrum seems petty considering multinational JVs. What if Delta made a JV with Emirates tomorrow? As long as there were 4 flights a week to DXB, Delta could place 175 pax on every Emirates flight... Closing that loophole is a much more pressing concern. What is the CASM for Emirates on the 777-300ER, or the A380?
Cheers
George
04-16-2012 | 12:25 AM
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From: Big ones
Perhaps that's what this (contract) negotiation is really all about. Labor wants to get back to the good times, but they ain't coming back until DAL gets some profitability. While sought by both business and labor, profitability isn't likely to happen while we have so many players in the (domestic US only?) airline market. Unfortunately a little consolidation is required, which can be painful for labor groups and politicians alike. Que RA's recent speech.
So what's it gonna be for DAL? Job 'security' by demanding scope returns and big paychecks but risk becoming a regional niche airline (similar to ALK) or take a leap and start the cascade of Skyteam, Star, and OneWorld. But if DALPA jumps, the question follows: What would it be like to work for 1 of only 3 airlines in the world? Would labor groups enjoy the same protections the DAL group has enjoyed over the decades? The DAL/DALPA 'team' seems as good as any to tackle the question.
Now pass the beer.
So what's it gonna be for DAL? Job 'security' by demanding scope returns and big paychecks but risk becoming a regional niche airline (similar to ALK) or take a leap and start the cascade of Skyteam, Star, and OneWorld. But if DALPA jumps, the question follows: What would it be like to work for 1 of only 3 airlines in the world? Would labor groups enjoy the same protections the DAL group has enjoyed over the decades? The DAL/DALPA 'team' seems as good as any to tackle the question.
Now pass the beer.
04-16-2012 | 12:29 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: 737n/FO
Very good question... how much would a mainline pilot be willing to work for to regain and fly a 76 seater? Let's hear to some dollar amounts.
If mainline pilots would be willing to fly them for $70 an hour like the regionals are, do you think management would be all over this-in order to regain synergies, or do you think they have 6+ different regionals in order to keep dis-unity in place?
If mainline pilots would be willing to fly them for $70 an hour like the regionals are, do you think management would be all over this-in order to regain synergies, or do you think they have 6+ different regionals in order to keep dis-unity in place?
CRJ 900 - 2nd year F/O 58.58 3rd Year F/O 67.44 4th year F/O 69.04
CRJ 900 - 12 year CA - $116.46.
Can't speak to new rates but this is the current rates so you don't have to guess how much.
04-16-2012 | 03:07 AM
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From: A-320A
As long as there is a domestic codeshare with AS the "line in the sand" about 76-seats at DCI seems academic to me:
I want that type of scope closed, pronto. Same goes for Virgin Australia and the imminent JV:
In return Delta can place it's code on unlimited VA flights so long as it's not more than 175 pax
In speaking to other pilots recently I noticed that many seem unaware or uninformed about these arrangements, perhaps because the side of the plane doesn't sport the name Delta "as part of a phrase," but the threat from domestic codeshare and international JVs is real and we are contractually naked when it comes to either...
As crappy as the current 3-year open compliance window is for our AFKLM/AZ JV, the rest of that agreement still is some of the best codeshare language we have. Close the 3 year window and make it right and I won't have complaints...
Looking ahead debating the 76-seat conundrum seems petty considering multinational JVs.
What if Delta entered into a JV with Emirates tomorrow?
As it stands today our PWA, Delta could place 175 pax on every Emirates flight...so long as there were 4 Delta flights per week to DXB,
Closing that loophole is a much more pressing concern. What is the CASM for Emirates on the 777-300ER, or the A380?
Cheers
George
- AS can carry 86 pax per plane, DCI caps out at 76
- AS can perform up to 25% of all hub-to-hub flying, DCI is limited to 6%
I want that type of scope closed, pronto. Same goes for Virgin Australia and the imminent JV:
- VA gets 3 LAX Australia flights, DAL get one
- VA flies 777-300, DAL flies 777-200
- Vigin Australia pilots connect beyond pax in Australia
- In the US AS, DCI and Delta share beyond passengers
In return Delta can place it's code on unlimited VA flights so long as it's not more than 175 pax
In speaking to other pilots recently I noticed that many seem unaware or uninformed about these arrangements, perhaps because the side of the plane doesn't sport the name Delta "as part of a phrase," but the threat from domestic codeshare and international JVs is real and we are contractually naked when it comes to either...
As crappy as the current 3-year open compliance window is for our AFKLM/AZ JV, the rest of that agreement still is some of the best codeshare language we have. Close the 3 year window and make it right and I won't have complaints...
Looking ahead debating the 76-seat conundrum seems petty considering multinational JVs.
What if Delta entered into a JV with Emirates tomorrow?
As it stands today our PWA, Delta could place 175 pax on every Emirates flight...so long as there were 4 Delta flights per week to DXB,
Closing that loophole is a much more pressing concern. What is the CASM for Emirates on the 777-300ER, or the A380?
Cheers
George
Exactly and that is why Section 1 needs major improvements. I have been using the Virgin Australia and EK examples as ways that we could get totally hosed and it would all be on the up and up with the wording in the PWA.
04-16-2012 | 03:15 AM
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From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
I went to CDG on Friday and checked the loads on Travelnet-AF has 5 flights a day from JFK. A-380, 2 777's, A340, and one A330. We get one light twin.
04-16-2012 | 03:39 AM
Can't abide NAI
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Bar, can you humor me 
and tell me how your scenario would play out and how it might result in a "redone" Tentative Agreement? (read: "vastly improved" with the operative word being: agreement)
How does what you say get us from the point of the "undo" TA...to a "redo" TA...or will we just have to wait til next time?
Thanks in advance
and tell me how your scenario would play out and how it might result in a "redone" Tentative Agreement? (read: "vastly improved" with the operative word being: agreement)How does what you say get us from the point of the "undo" TA...to a "redo" TA...or will we just have to wait til next time?
Thanks in advance
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