Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1177361)

You mean an absolute minimum increase of "more than a third" in pay rates and a "10 percent" decrease in 76 seat RJ flying not flown by Delta pilots, right?

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1177346)

Scoop, you are correct. Section1 is about not just small jets but all of our flying. As it stands now we have a ton of holes. Remember the republic holdings mess anyone? Hole. ALK? Hole Virgin Australlia soon to be jv does not need a production balances. Hole. JV with JAL that is revenue sharing and will not need a production balance? Hole. DAL could add 100717"s get the 76 seat jete, then park the 88's or717's and not reducing the 76 seaters? Hole.

Point is section 1 needs a lot of improving. This stuff is a must. Is allowing more large rj's but getting a production balance a concession? Depends on the actual wording of the TA and how and when they can be added. In the end the answer is different for many of us. I will wait to judge the actual product.

Again give input to your reps,now! As Buzz stated go to the PUB events. then make a up down decision on the actual agreement.

I still think this place gets really sporty after this agreement gets signed.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1177386)

Wow. A lot of assumption going on here. Maybe we should just wait and see what is presented before we start sharpening the pitch forks.

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone (Post 1177224)

:eek:Me too:eek:. I want my original DOH in the next merger, especially if it is HA or AK. Havent they hired 20-30% of their seniority in the past 2 years?
Not one of those guys hired in the last year or two should be ahead of any of our guys.

TEN

Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 1177365)

Sheesh, I get off APC for half a day, come back, and find out that DALPA is prepping the troops for yet another scope sale!?

Nawww, that can't be right. ALPA's not that stupid...right? I heard Lee Moak (PBUH) say with his own mouth "We're done giving away scope." He wouldn't have...lied...would he? Sailing's been telling us to relax, nobody at the MEC has any intention of relaxing scope. We all know he's posting on your dues money, certainly he wouldn't dare tell anything but the complete truth...right?

Oh, what's that, DALPA? It's not a scope sale? You're just giving them a few more 76 seaters and in exchange they'll park a WHOLE BUNCH of 50 seaters, and double-digit pay raises to boot?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1240934151




YGTBFKM. ALPA's done some really silly sh!t in their day, but this would take the cake. DAL is parking those 50 seaters whether you ask them to or not. They don't want those airplanes and have gone to great lengths to get rid of them. They moved Mesa to JFK, terminated the contract for performance, and battled them in court just to rid themselves of 31 ERJ-145s. That was planned years in advance. They've continuously dismantled a wholly owned carrier they paid $2B for, even though doing so destroyed their investment, made the remaining flying more expensive, and made the airline impossible to sell. That's how badly they wanted to get rid of those 50 seaters. And by sheer coincidence, I'm sure, within the last month they've acquired control of a regional airline holding company that flies 162 CRJ-200s for Delta. Do you really think Pinnacle is going to emerge from bankruptcy with that contract intact!? When T.O'M. says this opportunity is fleeting, he isn't kidding. DAL has
to get you guys to bite on this before they announce Pinnacle and Mesaba are terminating their CRJ-200 contracts in exchange for the additional CRJ-900s! They can't keep that cat in the bag for long!

Here's what really worries me. I'm an outsider that only half pays attention and I can see clear through this gambit. ALPA sure as heck is not falling for this out of ignorance. They know exactly what they, and DAL, are doing. They are willfully giving up more DC9 replacements, and they're doing it for a quick payraise to placate the senior guys. History is repeating itself. ALPA is selling out its young.

You guys need to stop this thing dead in its tracks, long before a TA is released. At that point it's likely too late. We need a MASSIVE calling campaign to the reps making it exceedingly clear that if this thing sees the light of day, every junior pilot (and the more enlightened senior ones) will not only vote against the T/A, but initiate recall of all reps and start volunteering for DPA all
at once. If there's anything we regional guys can do to help, please let us know. This is our fight too, it's our future ALPA is trying to sell like they have so many times before. :mad:

Off to write Moak a courteous letter reminding him of his promise and asking if he intends to use his presidency as a bully pulpit to end ALPA's embrace of outsourcing and the two-tier apartheid system....

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1177392)

Funny that guys jump all over rumors and ignore facts. Scope and Pay have not even been discussed yet. The negotiating team has been sequestered and the only person they have talked with is the MEC to give updates. The last updates stated that they have not even closed 1 section and have not discussed the major items.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1177392)

Funny that guys jump all over rumors and ignore facts. Scope and Pay have not even been discussed yet. The negotiating team has been sequestered and the only person they have talked with is the MEC to give updates. The last updates stated that they have not even closed 1 section and have not discussed the major items.

Originally Posted by DAL73n (Post 1177387)

When you mean when the TA is approved by the MEC to send to us. That is when it get's real sporty - we try and figure out what's in it at the same time DALPA is selling a TA to us. I think most of us in the cautiously "Trust but Verify" (Reagan era nuclear quote). We have been screwed many times by explanations of language that "looked good" that caught us with a loophole later on and you have identified a lot of holes that could catch us with say "we reduced 255 RJ's to 200" (yea we won) and none of the other holes are patched.