Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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- - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1177669)

Geeze Carl, maybe I'm a little naive but I took T's comment as a sarcastic rebuttal. In fact, I added to his sarcastic comment with one of my own.

I realize I'm stick'en my head in the lion's mouth - where it doesn't belong:D. But, fire away I guess:eek:

Your Uncle Ferd

Tsquare has a history of posts denigrating fNWA guys including calling our '98 strike "proof" that our union failed and that we failed. He's also made posts calling NWA a place where all the employee groups hated all the other employee groups. With this history, I can't give him the benefit of the doubt that you do. That's fine. But none of my other fDAL buds would have made such a post.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1177720)

Frankly it's not about supporting or not supporting Alpa. It's about the process and getting agreements and a career the Dal pilots want. I do not believe that anyone supports an orginization blindly, but sees the shortcomings as items that can be fixed through the process. Nothing comes easy and there is no "easy" button that can be pushed to solve all of the ills.

It's all about the sales pitch. We can read the data, we read the transcripts from the conference calls. We know we are doing well, and we know we are OWED a lot. IF ALPA can't do it for us and gives us a bad sales pitch that is transparent, maybe someone else should try. I bet management doesn't want that. So, they need to come up with a TA that will be voted in by the masses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1177573)

Bar, I'm assuming the "ratios" are block hours or utilization rates? What is the history about this from C2K that you talked about in a previous post?

Ferd

Ferd-
If you have time to read it, here is how a contractual Block Hour scheme works. The company was supposed to pay cash bonuses to the pilots for exceeding the outsourcing limit. Think that ever happened? Its mighty complex and hard to enforce and like BuckingBar said, the company broke this deal pretty much right after the ink was dry.

E. Block Hour Plans and Planned Percentages
32
33 1. Block Hour Plans
34 The Company plans to schedule no fewer than the following specified number of
35 block hours of Company flying (

“block hour plan”) in each of the following
36 calendar years:
37
38 2001: 2,212,000
39 2002: 2,267,000
40 2003: 2,346,000
41 2004 and thereafter: 2,443,000
42
43 2. Failure To Meet Block Hour Plans
44 If the Company fails to meet its block hour plan for any year (including any block

45 hour plan as reset), then each pilot on active payroll status on December 31 of

1 such year will be paid a pensionable lump sum bonus equivalent to a percentage
2 of the pilot’s pensionable earnings paid to him in such year, as follows:
3
Percent Below Block Hour Plan % of pensionable earnings
>0 but
one
>5% but
two
>10% below Plan three
4
5 Such lump sum will be paid in March of the year following the year in which the
6 Company failed to meet its block hour plan.
7 3. Planned Percentages
8 The Company plans that the total scheduled block hours of Delta Connection
9 flying, expressed as a percentage of the sum of total scheduled block hours of
10 Company flying and Delta Connection flying (“planned percentage”), will not be
11 greater than the following:
12
Year Planned Percentage
2002 34%
2003 36%
2004 and thereafter 37%
13
14 4. Failure to Meet Planned Percentages
15 If the actual percentage (i.e., the total actual scheduled block hours of Delta
16 Connection flying, expressed as a percentage of the sum of total actual scheduled
17 block hours of Company flying and Delta Connection flying) exceeds the planned
18 percentage for any year (including any planned percentage as reset), the planned
19 percentage of Delta Connection flying for the following year will be reduced by
20 the excess percentage. For example, if the planned percentage in 2002 is 34% and
21 the actual percentage for 2002 is 35%, then the revised planned percentage for
22 2003 would be 35%. The Company will be prohibited from exceeding the
23 applicable planned percentages (including any reset(s)) for any two consecutive
24 years.
25 5. Excused Compliance and Automatic Fixed Reset
26 a. Excused Compliance
27 The Company will be excused from compliance with all of its block hour
28 plans and planned percentages described in Section 1 E. 1. and 3. and they
29 will be reset in the event:
30 1) on a consolidated basis, the Company’s operating margin (total operating
31 income or loss, divided by total operating revenue) for any two
32 consecutive quarters falls below 95% of the combined positive operating
33 margin (total operating income divided by total operating revenue) in the
34 same two quarters for United, American, Northwest and Continental; or
35 2) on a consolidated basis, the Company has a negative operating margin
36 (total operating loss, divided by total operating revenue) for any two
37 consecutive quarters that exceeds 105% of the combined negative

38 operating margin (total operating loss divided by total operating revenue)

1 in the same two quarters for United, American, Northwest and Continental
2 (i.e., the Company sustains a larger loss by the margin stated); or
3 3) the Company has an operating loss (excluding the effect of the retroactive
4 costs of the PWA) in any two consecutive quarters commencing with the
5 first full quarter after the date of signing of the PWA; or
6 4) the United States gross domestic product (GDP) growth rate falls more
7 than 25% below the Company

’s GDP growth rate assumptions as set forth
8 in the chart below:
9
Year Assumed GDP Growth Rate -25%
2001 2.5% 1.9 %
2002 4.3% 3.2%
2003 4.8% 3.6%
2004 3.8% 2.9%
10
11 b. Automatic Fixed Reset
12 The reset of block hour plans and planned percentages for all years pursuant
13 to Section 1 E. 5. a. will be as follows:
14
15 Block Hour Plans
16 2001: 2,099,000
17 2002: 2,173,000
18 2003: 2,256,000
19 2004 and thereafter: 2,313,000
20
21 Planned Percentages
22 2002 35%
23 2003 37%
24 2004 and thereafter 39%
25 6. Excused Compliance and Negotiated Reset
26 a. If an event in Section 1 E. 5. a. 1), 2), 3) or 4) excusing compliance, occurs
27 after there has been an automatic fixed reset, there will be no second
28 automatic fixed reset, but the Company and the Association will promptly
29 meet and confer to reset block hour plans and planned percentages at levels
30 appropriate to the circumstances.
31 b. The Company will be excused from compliance with the block hour plans and
32 planned percentages, for all affected years, in the event a circumstance over
33 which the Company does not have control is the cause of such non34
compliance. If the Company is so excused from compliance, the Company
35 and the Association will promptly meet and confer to reset block hour plans
36 and planned percentages at levels appropriate to the circumstances.
37 7. In the event of the merger of the Company with another air carrier, the Company
38 and the Association will meet and confer to agree upon an appropriate increase in
39 the block hour plans and appropriate adjustment of planned percentages.
40

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 1177714)

Interesting 7th post you have.

The last four CAs I've flown with haven't sent cards. But they say they will if the opener sucks. Imagine that. The two previous CAs were DPA supporters. I don't know who the diehard ALPA supporter is because I've not flown with one.

How many post do I have to have before it no longer matters?

I think the original point was that it's likely, when they talk about their votes, support for scope, etc, not everyone is telling you exactly what they think. Thus, the disconnect with how many people tell you X but vote Y.

Tighter scope = Delta Pilot Jobs = More Job Security

Scope is my #1 issue.

For me, job security trumps pay hikes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1177731)

...the company broke this deal pretty much right after the ink was dry.

The beauty of it is that they didn't even have to break it, they just complied witht he sections that excused compliance form the sections we liked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaii50 (Post 1177687)

On the other hand, most of the guys I fly with are 55+. I see in their eyes that scope is not their priority. How to fund their retirement and improve pay and QOL are. These guys have lost a ton. They may be spring loaded to take the money now. .

Do you think these same guys would agree to help subsidize FO pay to within 15% of CA pay...after all if we give up scope for a pay raise...most FOs here at DL will be FOs for their career as we continue to shrink and outsource jobs!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1177774)

The beauty of it is that they didn't even have to break it, they just complied witht he sections that excused compliance form the sections we liked.

That's true. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "broke".
We gave them a huge loophole in that profit margin/GDP growth language and they took full advantage of it.

It sounds like we may be headed for another one of these block hour deals.
(I guess they're calling it "production balance" nowadays)
I hope the ALPA lawyers have improved their writing skills or we will end up with a bunch more outsourced jobs before we even know what hit us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elvis90 (Post 1177772)

Tighter scope = Delta Pilot Jobs = More Job Security

Scope is my #1 issue.

For me, job security trumps pay hikes.

<<<< + 1 >>>>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elvis90 (Post 1177772)

Tighter scope = Delta Pilot Jobs = More Job Security

Scope is my #1 issue.

For me, job security trumps pay hikes.

<<<< +2 >>>>