Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1177392)

Funny that guys jump all over rumors and ignore facts. Scope and Pay have not even been discussed yet. The negotiating team has been sequestered and the only person they have talked with is the MEC to give updates. The last updates stated that they have not even closed 1 section and have not discussed the major items.

Funny that you give your fellow Delta pilots no credit for being able to put historical failure* and current "ALPA speak" together and reach a fairly accurate conclusion about the direction given to our negotiators on Section 1.

If I had a subcontractor who say, painted houses ... and I asked he paint a house brown and not get paint on my truck, it would be no more acceptable for him to paint my truck brown than it is for ALPA to come back and say "well, the first thing you all asked for is pay."

What ALPA's analysis of the DPA threat fails to recognize is the change which will occur as a result of ALPA's own actions. The DPA has never been something anyone other than a small handful of pilots support. It is what a large number of pilots see as an alternative to ALPA's repeated failure understand unity.

I'm with ACL, if there is a deal we will look at it and discuss it on its merits. That should not be interpreted to mean that a single additional outsourced jet will be accepted. These airplanes can be flown by Delta seniority list pilots.

You have no idea the strength of our resolve. Our pilots are better educated than they have ever been. There are more of us. The Northwest guys, God love 'em, are willing to speak up. If ALPA wants to keep working for us, we must be treated with respect. That means every single pilot ... if one pilot has a problem, we all have a problem.

... and Delta management has got to understand this as well. The NWA guys struck. Our current pilot group will strike over the continued outsourcing of our jobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1177411)

And this comes from the top of the list too...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1177411)

Bar, I will be the first to vote no if there is a increase in 76 seat jets. I am not however going to get all upset over a section that has not even been discussed yet. I have long stated that John Malone's decision to allow the EMB170/175 at DCI was DALPA's biggest error. Perhaps he honestly knew the company would file chapter 11 if that was not a part of LOA 46 and felt there was no choice. Certainly once we were in the 1113 process the increase to 76 seats was a train we were not going to stop. That is why the initial decision to up the gross weight in LOA 46 was so critical.
Keep in mind however there are two sides to scope. One side you always refuse to recognize. If you can't fly the flying at the mainline within a few percentages points of the cost to fly it at DCI you lose not only the flying but the feed to the mainline if you scope it out. As I have stated from day one on this forum I believe we can do that with the 170/175. I don't believe we can do it with smaller jets. There is a need for feeder airlines. We have always had them and they hold a valid place in our system. We just let the balance move to far with the 170/175.

I saw this scope sale coming when I read the opener last month. Restoring ratios is ALPA's term for allowing more bigger rj's for less small rj's. ALPA could put out a statement stating that we will not outsource one more 76 seat jet. They will not do that which gives our fears merit. I personally don't think ALPA views DPA as a real threat. They also don't think we will vote down a TA. Sadly, I think they might be right.

Can someone explain this conversion thing to me... If I'm not converted to my new airplane(lower paying category) until next month, why is my paycheck I just got lower already? I'm changing base too, can they really give me the new pay rate and no per diem because I was in training in my old base? Or will I see my pay rate adjusted on my 15th paycheck? Or a ton of per diem? I expected to have the same ol pay check since i haven't changed categories yet even though I finished training.

Sailing,

Sincerely, thank you for your support on the 76 seat issue.

You offer an great counterpoint that keeps the discussion interesting and better focused. My sincere apologies if my posts seem like personal slams, they are not. In some cases, it is just taking advantage of an opportunity to put something out there (which is why we don't see Alpha or Slowplay with us currently).

John Malone could not know that scope would be modified in Chapter 11 because no one knows the answer to that question. It has never been done before.

Guess the part of this rumored direction that has me most concerned is that it violates economic common sense, to explain:

The first part of Contract 2000 that failed was the ratios and operational restrictions on the RJ's. Economically, we all understand the need for the Company to make money. In times of duress we are all going to want the Company to make the most money possible so we all survive to fight another day. If we outsource more airplanes with lower CASM numbers than our (MD88 / 717?) then economic stress will push us towards lifting those scope restrictions, again. We should not repeat a failed strategy.
The economic analysis cited supporting outsourcing is flawed. It is as much the result of politics as it is the murky way that regional airline costs are allocated in BTS reporting. You know from your exposure to our operation that we share all the elements of a common transportation system except for the redundant layers of management and Corporate structures needed to keep us separate. If our numbers are not right for operating these airplanes at mainline, then we need to get right on the numbers. However, our Admin has never been tasked with that job and has been reminded of the chain of command when they have tried.

These concerns have been raised to our Association President, MEC Chairman and Senior Reps. Their replies made it evident that they did not understand the issues and were intent on repeating the mistakes of the past.

Scope and unity are the same thing. We can't be unified if half of our flying is performed by someone else. We can't be unified if we are negotiating one man's job away to benefit another man. It is not about a 76 seat line (although your point is well made), it is about UNITY.

BB

For those that are interpreting T.O.'s latest letter as a scope relief, please, take all the energy you are wasting here blabbering and write your Rep. All this assumption is ridiculous. Quit wasting your energy here, and voice it to someone who can pass it on to our Negotiating Committee.

Johnson,

Good post. Most of us have. If anyone hasn't follow his advice.

My Reps tell me people cut and paste from my posts, if that explains why the effort is made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1177434)

Johnson,

Good post. Most of us have. If anyone hasn't follow his advice.

My Reps tell me people cut and paste from my posts, if that explains why the effort is made.

And please don't think I'm discounting the importance of discussion, but right now we are runnning in circles. There are a lot of smart people on this forum, but we don't have anything solid right now. Lets keep hammering our Reps, instead of each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brocc15 (Post 1177427)

Per diem and over guarantee pay always come on the 15th check. Also, I'll have to check the contract, but if you convert next month and the paycheck on the 30th is your advance for NEXT month, that may be why you're seeing the lower amount.