Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin (Post 1182864)

Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin (Post 1182864)

You're an American. Have you apologized to blacks for slavery? How bout to Native Americans, women, Japanese during WWII, mentally handicapped for experiments run on them?

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1182952)

Just opened my e-mail.
I am stunned!! Appalled!! This Negotiator Notepad is unbelievable. I can't imagine why they would put this out.
Are we back in bankruptcy? This is all increases in pilot productivity with nothing good attached to it but trivialities.
We've just lost maybe what? a thousand pilots with this disaster. More?

Raise the ALV? Lose jobs. Make July and August into 30 day months to pack that ALV into? Lose jobs. Bump the reserves to ALV+15? Lose jobs. Let reserves sell their X days for more guarantee? Lose jobs.
This is freaking horrible! If this stuff makes it into the contract we will not see another positive AE for a long long time. The 100 hour month *****s among us will love this contract. Makes up for the loss of trip parking and then some.

I will repeat -- I am stunned!
What the hell is Scrappy thinking putting this out? Could it be a cry for help? Is he warning us that things are going badly? The good things in it are trivial and infrequent. We can now call in sick for a toothache? Yippee!!

I suppose I will eat my words if there is a 50% pay raise attached but for now --- WOW. We are getting our butts kicked.

There better be some VERY serious coins coming along with all these work rule concessions.

Somebody tell me why I shouldn't panic. Please.
Did I read this wrong? Its all concessions to my mind. That can't be right.
When people filled out the survey was "work longer hours" the number 1 vote getter??
I'm just shocked at this. Sorry. Time for some single malt.

Originally Posted by Xray678 (Post 1182965)

People like to compare our pay rates to SW pay rates. Which is fine. But if you are going to do that you also need to compare SW productivity to ours.

Originally Posted by Xray678 (Post 1182965)

Do you really think we are going to get a big pay raise if we are not more productive?

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1183551)

You are gonna have to 'splain that one to me.. The issue that needs changing in THIS particular regard is the required/available section. The company has the advantage to use a reserve to cover from any base at no harm/no foul. That way they can overstaff someplase.. like ATL.. and understaff someplace else.. like NY. So NY lineholders cannot drop, but the company has the base covered with a 2 hour deadhead... IT's crap, and needs to be changed. If the system wide reserve availabiity is good for the company, it should be good enough for us.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1183511)

The opener stated industry leading. I take that to be at or above SWA rates in short order

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1183490)

SWA's current position in the industry is going to go away. They are in the midst of a poorly thought out merger, and it is going to take some time for that to play out. DAL is years ahead of them, and we will see the fruits of that labor soon enough.

Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom (Post 1183365)

With regard to the Negotiator's Notepad:

I am extremely disappointed with DALPA and the negotiating team. We have been working under essentially bankruptcy forced work rules and pay rates for the better part of ten years. (Yes, there have been a few increases, but depending on one's sources, they haven't kept up/barely kept up with inflation.)

We have been told by numerous sources that ALPA "get's it"... We have been told that we have leverage...

And this is what they have negotiated? This is ALPA "getting it"? YGTBSM!!!

I don't need to see the whole contract because there is enough there now for me to say to say no.

I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't been pointed out, but under the proposed changes to reserve, crew scheduling can "park" a pilot just under the ALV so he/she is still on the hook and wait for a high time trip and fly them right up to ALV+15.

Sure there are a few minor improvements, but to me anyway what has been negotiated so far are significant productivity concessions. WHY ARE WE GIVING UP ANYTHING?

Lastly, from previous experience, I think the remaining negotiations will go something like this: Company playing hardball on the big stuff and the negotiating team being "burned out", agreeing to insufficient increases in pay rates, scope, etc. They'll say "Gee fellas we did the best we could. You can't reject this or we'll have to start all over. We'll get 'em next time...."

In the case of these expedited negotiations they'll play the "time value of money" card.

I don't want to wait (again) for "next time".

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1183551)

You are gonna have to 'splain that one to me.. The issue that needs changing in THIS particular regard is the required/available section. The company has the advantage to use a reserve to cover from any base at no harm/no foul. That way they can overstaff someplase.. like ATL.. and understaff someplace else.. like NY. So NY lineholders cannot drop, but the company has the base covered with a 2 hour deadhead... IT's crap, and needs to be changed. If the system wide reserve availabiity is good for the company, it should be good enough for us.

Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1183560)

Ding Ding Ding...

This is a big deal, it neads to be fixed and it's pretty invisible to most...

It hurts lineholders and reserves alike, just that the effects are felt in different bases. Right now there can be a base with lots of flying and no reserves, while at the same time another base has no flying and everybody on short-call. The first base has the lineholders hurt because there is no way to swap because there are no reserves. The second base is hurt because there are fewer lines and tons of reserves stacked on short-call to cover for the fleet...

Either the ALV and reserve count is fleet-wide, or the ALV and reserves count is by base, but not mixed and matched as is the case right now...

Our min reserve formula is poor as well. The min requirement is well below the real-world reserve requirement which is why we are running out of reserves regularly these days, well before the summer peak.

The proposed ALV +15 cap will actually require 25% fewer real reserves compared to right now because there are more "reserve" hours for each reserve pilot. No need to increase the reserve count and thus no benefit to line-holders for PCS purposes. Best case is the new rules approach the current limits of the current reserves staffing formula while giving scheduling 25% more slop in hours.

Cheers
George