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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

EmilioLizardo 05-09-2012 07:50 PM
Hey 80 and ACL, I finally did it, no longer lurking:)
ACL, how was turnout today? Standing room only?

Denny Crane 05-09-2012 08:06 PM
I've been thinking about the NNP and, after reading everything, can only come to one conclusion. Yes, it seems like the manning issues are well in favor of the company BUT I forsee the company needing to hire significantly if a TA is reached and ratified. If there is any increase in things like vacation (either hours/day or more weeks) it will cause the need for significant hiring. Maybe my glass is half full but I'll wait and see what the entire package entails.

Denny

NuGuy 05-09-2012 08:35 PM
I nominate all the toolbags over on the webboard who are tripping over themselves to sell scope for pay: TOOLS OF THE DAY (ok, maybe the decade).

Nu

80ktsClamp 05-09-2012 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 1185343)
I nominate all the toolbags over on the webboard who are tripping over themselves to sell scope for pay: TOOLS OF THE DAY (ok, maybe the decade).

Nu
bicentury tools. Selling scope for pay is how we got in this mess in the first place.

Carl Spackler 05-09-2012 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Delta1067 (Post 1185046)
Be careful Carl or the sensitivity police is going to jump down your throat :cool:
Sensitivity police?

**** them.

Carl

Carl Spackler 05-09-2012 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1185068)
You were not supposed to read my post that way. I ask you a question, why do I fly a CRJ and not a 747 at Pinnacle?
I wasn't supposed to read it that way? How could it be read any other way? You tried to make it look like the pilots of Delta are in a complete no-win situation and will just have to accept our fate. Here's your post again for your review (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1184912)
One thing to look at though, is Delta directly and indirectly employs a lot of people. It's probably at least somewhere between 250-500K, maybe more. In this economy Delta is "Too Big To Fail", they don't have to put a lot of money on the table to get the NMB to side with them. I think if Delta puts up a lot of cash for scope relief, strictly from a business decision standpoint, DALPA would be inclined to take the deal.

In other words, you may not have the opportunity to vote for a contract that doesn't have scope relief. Which, faced with perpetual negotiations vs significant pay increases for a lot of pilots nearing the end of their career, makes a recipe for disaster. Also Delta has 400+ management pilots, these people have a lot of influence, even if you think they don't.
If you didn't mean that to sound like some cubicle manager trying to deflate and defeat this pilot group before the TA even comes out, then you should edit it.

Carl

TeddyKGB 05-09-2012 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1185090)
No you don't get it, Scope is not a contract item; You can't strike over it. I doubt you would show up to work tomorrow if DCI started receiving 777s/747s/767s, etc. Why do you show up if there are CRJs being flown by DCI? I admit I'm guilty of contributing to the slide by working at Pinnacle, but I never took any of your flying that wasn't given. If mainline pilots truly wanted CRJs back on the mainline, management would put them back there, no contract negotiations necessary. However, I've got bad news for you, they don't.
Nuff said :cool:

Carl Spackler 05-09-2012 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1185090)
No you don't get it, Scope is not a contract item; You can't strike over it.
Nobody can make that definitive statement yet. The case law is unclear. There is a non-airline union case where a judge ordered that the union cannot strike over the scope of their work. But a similar such order with a different union was later overturned on appeal. There has not yet been a press to test of this issue in the airline industry.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1185090)
I doubt you would show up to work tomorrow if DCI started receiving 777s/747s/767s, etc.
We'd have no choice but to show up. Our CURRENT scope language allows for the RAH scope abuse through the sham of a "holding company". Some DCI could be made a "holding company" tomorrow and start ordering 777's. Our own union says the language they wrote is too weak to even attempt a grievance regarding holding companies.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1185090)
Why do you show up if there are CRJs being flown by DCI?
Because our scope allows it. Just like big airplanes in holding companies.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1185090)
I admit I'm guilty of contributing to the slide by working at Pinnacle, but I never took any of your flying that wasn't given.
I appreciate that you at least admit you have a role in this debacle. Most just prefer to blame everything on major pilots.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1185090)
If mainline pilots truly wanted CRJs back on the mainline, management would put them back there, no contract negotiations necessary.
No they wouldn't. Because it's not about finances...it can't be. Delta is willingly operating stuff with higher CASM's rather than bringing it in house. They do it because it's all about the whipsaw. Mainline pilots getting flying back would prevent the whipsaw, therefore your thesis of it mattering if mainline pilots truly wanted CRJ's back is meaningless.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1185090)
However, I've got bad news for you, they don't.
Wrong again. That may have been the case a decade ago, but it's not the case now.

Carl

acl65pilot 05-10-2012 02:25 AM
Originally Posted by EmilioLizardo (Post 1185327)
Hey 80 and ACL, I finally did it, no longer lurking:)
ACL, how was turnout today? Standing room only?
Oh boy, there goes this place.

LEC mtg was full. Great turnout.

nerd2009 05-10-2012 02:51 AM
Any highlights on the meeting? Inquiring minds want to know.


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