Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-15-2012 | 06:14 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Listen, RA is a smart guy. He sees the on time numbers getting better, good write ups in Fortune, etc and the brand getting good recognition. The ability to get your employees on board where others are failing shows good leadership.
Let him/management know that things could get ugly (no more constructive engagement, letter writing, smooth/on time operations) if he doesn't step up and spend a few more dollars to do this right. The pilots are due. Its time. No more games.
I believe RA wants to keep the happy MOJO flowing forward and in fact it will be one of the keys to success. If he loses the pilots along the way the whole operation can jump the tracks. A lot of pilots I have flow with the past several years have worked hard to do all they could to be on time and make the customers happy with the idea there is a payout coming. If that doesn't happen everybody stops caring.
The problem is, the guys on the NC/ALPA have potentially gotten so cozy with management and caught up in the whole "we are setting history getting a deal done so fast" that they may not be willing to say "Hey this is an insult. You are about to have over 10,000 pi$$ed off pilots that can have a very negative effect on the bottom line and the goodwill created up until this point....you can still make billions of dollars even if you pay your pilots a wage that will keep them content along with work rules/scope they can live with.
Let him/management know that things could get ugly (no more constructive engagement, letter writing, smooth/on time operations) if he doesn't step up and spend a few more dollars to do this right. The pilots are due. Its time. No more games.
I believe RA wants to keep the happy MOJO flowing forward and in fact it will be one of the keys to success. If he loses the pilots along the way the whole operation can jump the tracks. A lot of pilots I have flow with the past several years have worked hard to do all they could to be on time and make the customers happy with the idea there is a payout coming. If that doesn't happen everybody stops caring.
The problem is, the guys on the NC/ALPA have potentially gotten so cozy with management and caught up in the whole "we are setting history getting a deal done so fast" that they may not be willing to say "Hey this is an insult. You are about to have over 10,000 pi$$ed off pilots that can have a very negative effect on the bottom line and the goodwill created up until this point....you can still make billions of dollars even if you pay your pilots a wage that will keep them content along with work rules/scope they can live with.
We're being handed that leverage right now for a reason beyond what I'd care to contemplate about. Do we use it?
Hopefully we did already. I'm not buying into any numbers until it's published, it's frankly a waste of energy.
05-15-2012 | 06:14 PM
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From: 777 Sim Instructor
If the TA comes to us we all get a say with our vote, hopefully it is better than rumored.
05-15-2012 | 06:25 PM
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DING, DING, DING. You hit the nail on the head. Let's look at the big picture. Mgmt cannot give us a huge pay raise on the published pay scales or the other labor groups will be looking for their "me too" they've always had. Keeps the other unions off the property. They most likely offered "shadow" pay raises like the announced increases in reserve ALV, or things like 5:15 per calendar day regardless of start time. Makes those 10:30-12:30 crappy three days with a red eye on the backside always in open time worth 15:45 for the same amt of work. Increases in vacation/training credit also I imagine plus some other stuff. I just don't (and never did) see mgmt giving a big % pay raise other groups will point to and get ****ed about. If it's 4,8,3,3 then add a few extra hrs a month for the same amt of work and it may come to more like 6,12,5,5. If its a three year deal and you get 6 then the 12 less than six months later on top of the six, that's like getting 19-20% equivalent on the ammendable date. For me its about scope. I came hear post BK so I knew the pay rates/retirement situacion. 20% sounds good but don't give me the reach around on scope.
05-15-2012 | 06:25 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: 777B
Scambo, Bar has a valid and big picture view. There are 3 other legacy carriers in extended negotiations with no end in sight. AA pilots on average will give up 45 k this year alone if the APA had accepted 5%/year when they started negotiations( compounding is a wonderful thing). Not saying I agree completely with Bar but if the company stonewalls us we could still be in negotiations when this TA is amendable and that's money you might never get back. Now if the NMB releases UCAl for self help and they're allowed to strike maybe we can make bigger gains. Personally I don't see that happening anytime soon.
If the TA comes to us we all get a say with our vote, hopefully it is better than rumored.
If the TA comes to us we all get a say with our vote, hopefully it is better than rumored.
If the company stonewalls us, fine. It is their opportunity that brought us here and that is one element from which we draw leverage.
The rumored TA pay wont pass muster. If it is the best the NC could do with one day to negotiate, great. In that case, they should take more days, weeks or months.
Personally, I can't believe they would deliver this low of a payrate. As had been said before, RA is a smart guy. He opened this pandoras box of expedited negotiation, he can't close it on the cheap.
If this rumor is true and passes the MEC, not only will there be a loss of labor peace, but there will be painful upheaval in other areas.
I for one can't believe this rumor is accurate.
from one of my earlier posts:
If this rumor has any basis in fact, I would NOT expect to see a TA unless:
DCI went away. Section 1 was 100% fixed. DC contribution went to the 415C limit. Profit sharing stayed. 500 early retirements were incentivised. etc.
In this case, I might consider voting yes.
I have also emailed my reps.
05-15-2012 | 06:25 PM
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From: 737 Capt
Thanks to the RLA time is never on our side, we have no leverage when it comes to time that I can think of.
We're being handed that leverage right now for a reason beyond what I'd care to contemplate about. Do we use it?
Hopefully we did already. I'm not buying into any numbers until it's published, it's frankly a waste of energy.
We're being handed that leverage right now for a reason beyond what I'd care to contemplate about. Do we use it?
Hopefully we did already. I'm not buying into any numbers until it's published, it's frankly a waste of energy.
05-15-2012 | 06:27 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Bar is generally very well thought out.
If the company stonewalls us, fine. It is their opportunity that brought us here and that is one element from which we draw leverage.
The rumored TA pay wont pass muster. If it is the best the NC could do with one day to negotiate, great. In that case, they should take more days, weeks or months.
Personally, I can't believe they would deliver this low of a payrate. As had been said before, RA is a smart guy. He opened this pandoras box of expedited negotiation, he can't close it on the cheap.
If this rumor is true and passes the MEC, not only will there be a loss of labor peace, but there will be painful upheaval in other areas.
I for one can't believe this rumor is accurate.
If the company stonewalls us, fine. It is their opportunity that brought us here and that is one element from which we draw leverage.
The rumored TA pay wont pass muster. If it is the best the NC could do with one day to negotiate, great. In that case, they should take more days, weeks or months.
Personally, I can't believe they would deliver this low of a payrate. As had been said before, RA is a smart guy. He opened this pandoras box of expedited negotiation, he can't close it on the cheap.
If this rumor is true and passes the MEC, not only will there be a loss of labor peace, but there will be painful upheaval in other areas.
I for one can't believe this rumor is accurate.
05-15-2012 | 06:34 PM
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Why get so wrapped up over rumors and supposed leaks? We will have the details shortly.
05-15-2012 | 06:49 PM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Poodle Whisperer
I'm just gonna chill out until we see the deets.
05-15-2012 | 06:59 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Had to chuckle - "Limousine Socialism"
05-15-2012 | 07:02 PM
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From: B767 First Officer
Contracoaster
Really enjoyed the ride today, guys: Mildly curious surprise followed by rising expectations, nearly climactic exultation followed by doubt, rumor, innuendo and general depression slowly coming to a halt in post BK reality.
But, tomorrow is another day! Maybe the Negotiator's Notepad guy will hit "send" by accident in the middle of the night.
Tonight I go to bed with the hope that RA and DALPA aren't stupid enough to send us a crappy deal at this juncture. It would be the biggest labor blunder in history.
Good luck to us all.
But, tomorrow is another day! Maybe the Negotiator's Notepad guy will hit "send" by accident in the middle of the night.
Tonight I go to bed with the hope that RA and DALPA aren't stupid enough to send us a crappy deal at this juncture. It would be the biggest labor blunder in history.
Good luck to us all.
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