Not sure I understand the relationship you are trying to draw between concessions and outsourcing.

Outsourcing (in it's current form) began with the changes to ALPA's Constitution in (I believe) 1998 which removed "alter ego" protections from ALPA's merger and fragmentation language. Thus ASA was bought in 1999 and Comair in 2000 then operated as with a 500 airplane order announced about the same time. Contract 2000 restricted some of Atlantic Southeast's larger aircraft which were operated with ~ 120 seats. (going from memory here, so either bear with me or let me know and I'll dig up my notes)

ALPA advised it's pilots that scope (labor protective provisions) could be stripped during bankruptcy. Some of us disagreed, stating that no Judge had yet stripped non pecuniary labor protective provisions. ALPA took the pragmatic approach, making labor protective provisions an economic issue and negotiating scope just like any other part of Delta's contract (and NWA did the same).

Delta and Northwest pilots both took credits (money) for increasing outsourcing. In plain terms, scope was sold.

Years later APA taught us that indeed Judges would invalidate scope (LPPs) in contracts. I wonder if ALPA's economic approach influenced the Judge to perceive scope as an economic issue. None the less, ALPA turned out to be very correct on the legal issue.

But, aside from APA, no scope was taken from any mainline carrier during bankruptcy. It was negotiated away.

 

"... without even being interviewed," because their airline was acquired and integrated. Name one regional that was acquired and integrated at Delta.

 

I'm a DCI non SSP guy that got hired last month. In my group there were 5 SSP guys, 1 expressjet, 1 mil, and myself (Skywest). The only guys who didn't get the offer were 3 of the SSP guys.

 

For being a smart guy, I can't figure out why you're making this difficult.

I'm saying that in pattern bargaining, as the legacies were seeing gains pre 9/11, the regionals were as well. It had downward flow/collateral effects. IOW, the profession as a whole was being brought up from a previous level. Despite the outsourcing relationship. Post 9/11, it reversed.

A pharma sales rep that works DIRECTLY for a pharma company usually gets paid more than a contracted sales rep. Apples to oranges to our collective bargaining relationship. However, IF the directly employed reps start getting bumps in their compensation, the contracted/outsourced is now able push for a stronger (but usually still less than the directly employed) compensation package.

Holy cow!!!! You believe that too!!!!!! UAL did it as well.

Careful man, I've made that point you made PLENTY of times, and gotten flamed PLENTY of times for it. Never ceases to amaze me how people CAN'T grasp the concept of that's what happened. Bigger paychecks/bigger aircraft on order=scope relaxation.

 

Your right, sorry to rock the boat and expect equal and fair representation in ALPA's indentured servitude system for regional airline pilots. I am sure any airline pilot that gets acquired or simply bought out well be treated fair as long as you are at a mainline carrier. I just get confused about unity.

 

Spare us the victim complex. I've got no issue with the prefential hiring of ALPA pilots -- in fact, I fully support it. As a matter of fact it's in our PWA now. Brotherhood and all that. But why should the standards be lowered?

As to the question of why regional pilots are not integrated into the mainline list when there is an acquisition but other major airline pilots are, here is your answer (again.) Regional pilots are not flying similar-gage equipment that will be integrated into mainline operations (727, 737 ...)

No more going around in circles for me. It's adult beverage time. Cheers and the best of luck to you.

 

What percentage of the Pinnacle/Endeavor pilots fall under the SSP?

 

Ah, yes, the victim card. Did anyone force you to work in "indentured servitude?" No? Then I invite you to take responsibility for your decisions, have a Coke and a smile, and s t f u.

 

100% as of now...not sure if I understand your question. Everyone on property is under it. The FOs have to upgrade and be a CA for a year...

 

mind telling us your quals?