DAL Poolie Info
02-20-2016, 02:28 PM
#6591
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,691
Originally Posted by MikeF16
TL: DNR? 717 = long days, crappy layover locations, lots of legs, very early wake-up and/or very late arrivals at destinations. Lots of earning potential.
I flew the 717 as a fairly senior FO in NYC and am now a fairly junior FO in ATL, here are my impressions of the trips and why they aren't very attractive. While in NYC as a senior bidder, I flew quite a few "normal" workdays. Get up at a reasonable time, fly 1 or 2 legs, and then arrive at my layover at a time early enough to get dinner and/or drinks. Almost all my layovers were in major metropolitan areas. Not sure if the bottom of the pecking order up in NYC had that luxury, nor am I sure if that is still the case for the higher seniority guys since I left in November as schedules change often. Of course the big negative was commuting to NYC to cover all 3 airports. That is a separate misery all it's own which I won't get into in this post.
What I have found about ATL 717 (roughly half the 717 fleet) is most of the bid package stinks through and through (LAX flies lots of legs, but they have MUCH better layover locations, and DTW is a very small base). Sure, there are a couple outliers but even the more senior guys typically get a minimum of 3 legs a day, often 4 or 5. The worst part is most of the trips you either find yourself waking up at 0330-0430 to get the jet back to ATL in time for the breakfast push or you are arriving at Po-dunk USA after 11pm. We have no red eyes which is good and we have quite a few 30 hour layovers which sound good on the surface but for the most part suck (long explanation to follow, feel free to skip the next 4 bullets). So why do 30 hour layovers suck?
1. Most of our 30 hour layovers are to very small towns, so there is very little to do on your day off.
2. 30 hours means you arrive very late AND leave very early the following work day, so even on your day off in between you can't go out too late since the following day's wake-up is so early.
3. Due to our 5:15 avg daily guarantee, a typical 4 day trip with a 30 hour layover will be worth 21:00. To make up for the day off in BFE-USA, scheduling will have 6-8 hours of block allocated to the other 3 days of the trip to minimize the credit. In the 717, if you are getting 6-8 hours of block that means you're working 10-13 hours. Yeah, yeah, I know you guys eat up 13 hour days right?
.
4. If you have a side business that uses 1200 baud internet speeds or love hotel gyms with a broken elliptical, a 1980s treadmill, 35 lb dumb-bells, and a torn-up all-purpose unpadded bench then disregard the 1st 3 bullets, you'll love it!
I still prefer driving to work for my crappy 4 day ATL trips than JSing to my "luxury" NYC trips. Also as it currently stands, there is no plane a brand new FO can earn more money on than the 717. Due to low manning there are a lot of premium pay trips available. If you're one of the time-off guys, then that doesn't apply. If you're flexible and want to earn, there is no other plane here with as much opportunity (at this seniority level).
I flew the 717 as a fairly senior FO in NYC and am now a fairly junior FO in ATL, here are my impressions of the trips and why they aren't very attractive. While in NYC as a senior bidder, I flew quite a few "normal" workdays. Get up at a reasonable time, fly 1 or 2 legs, and then arrive at my layover at a time early enough to get dinner and/or drinks. Almost all my layovers were in major metropolitan areas. Not sure if the bottom of the pecking order up in NYC had that luxury, nor am I sure if that is still the case for the higher seniority guys since I left in November as schedules change often. Of course the big negative was commuting to NYC to cover all 3 airports. That is a separate misery all it's own which I won't get into in this post.
What I have found about ATL 717 (roughly half the 717 fleet) is most of the bid package stinks through and through (LAX flies lots of legs, but they have MUCH better layover locations, and DTW is a very small base). Sure, there are a couple outliers but even the more senior guys typically get a minimum of 3 legs a day, often 4 or 5. The worst part is most of the trips you either find yourself waking up at 0330-0430 to get the jet back to ATL in time for the breakfast push or you are arriving at Po-dunk USA after 11pm. We have no red eyes which is good and we have quite a few 30 hour layovers which sound good on the surface but for the most part suck (long explanation to follow, feel free to skip the next 4 bullets). So why do 30 hour layovers suck?
1. Most of our 30 hour layovers are to very small towns, so there is very little to do on your day off.
2. 30 hours means you arrive very late AND leave very early the following work day, so even on your day off in between you can't go out too late since the following day's wake-up is so early.
3. Due to our 5:15 avg daily guarantee, a typical 4 day trip with a 30 hour layover will be worth 21:00. To make up for the day off in BFE-USA, scheduling will have 6-8 hours of block allocated to the other 3 days of the trip to minimize the credit. In the 717, if you are getting 6-8 hours of block that means you're working 10-13 hours. Yeah, yeah, I know you guys eat up 13 hour days right?
.4. If you have a side business that uses 1200 baud internet speeds or love hotel gyms with a broken elliptical, a 1980s treadmill, 35 lb dumb-bells, and a torn-up all-purpose unpadded bench then disregard the 1st 3 bullets, you'll love it!
I still prefer driving to work for my crappy 4 day ATL trips than JSing to my "luxury" NYC trips. Also as it currently stands, there is no plane a brand new FO can earn more money on than the 717. Due to low manning there are a lot of premium pay trips available. If you're one of the time-off guys, then that doesn't apply. If you're flexible and want to earn, there is no other plane here with as much opportunity (at this seniority level).
There was time when DelCon did that flying, for 1/3-1/2 the pay, NONE of the wokrules, under 121 rest rules, with 10-11-12 days off.
Until UAL gets their 73's spun up an AAG removes head from rectum, it's STILL THAT WAY.
02-20-2016, 04:39 PM
#6592
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by John Carr
And as much as that "sucks", DONT lose perspective.
There was time when DelCon did that flying, for 1/3-1/2 the pay, NONE of the wokrules, under 121 rest rules, with 10-11-12 days off.
Until UAL gets their 73's spun up an AAG removes head from rectum, it's STILL THAT WAY.
There was time when DelCon did that flying, for 1/3-1/2 the pay, NONE of the wokrules, under 121 rest rules, with 10-11-12 days off.
Until UAL gets their 73's spun up an AAG removes head from rectum, it's STILL THAT WAY.
02-20-2016, 04:50 PM
#6594
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by John Carr
"Bad", perspective.
Keep your knickers untwisted
Keep your knickers untwisted
02-20-2016, 05:05 PM
#6595
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,691
Well, alllll rightyyyyy then.......
It's NOT about "back in the day".
It's about calling the trips "bad". But sure, tell the guys on property that got to experience a furlough and scope giveaway how "bad" they are. See if they agree. Or tell you to shut up and be grateful that scope is being recaptured and that flying is being done by Delta pilots.
You have a good night, "junior".
It's NOT about "back in the day".
It's about calling the trips "bad". But sure, tell the guys on property that got to experience a furlough and scope giveaway how "bad" they are. See if they agree. Or tell you to shut up and be grateful that scope is being recaptured and that flying is being done by Delta pilots.
You have a good night, "junior".
02-20-2016, 05:52 PM
#6596
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Originally Posted by John Carr
Well, alllll rightyyyyy then.......
It's NOT about "back in the day".
It's about calling the trips "bad". But sure, tell the guys on property that got to experience a furlough and scope giveaway how "bad" they are. See if they agree. Or tell you to shut up and be grateful that scope is being recaptured and that flying is being done by Delta pilots.
You have a good night, "junior".
It's NOT about "back in the day".
It's about calling the trips "bad". But sure, tell the guys on property that got to experience a furlough and scope giveaway how "bad" they are. See if they agree. Or tell you to shut up and be grateful that scope is being recaptured and that flying is being done by Delta pilots.
You have a good night, "junior".
02-20-2016, 10:36 PM
#6600
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 84
I'll second that. MikeF16 that was the kind of post that is really useful for someone in the pool or interested in delta. since everyone in the pool will start out as the most junior guy it would be great to hear what type of trips (layovers, report times, legs per day) a new guy could get on other attainable aircraft. Especially out of NYC since that is the majority of what seems to come down. Thanks again.
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