Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tom14cat14 (Post 1922094)

Would you guys for yes for this TA if the only change was to keep the TA's PS reduction and pay rate increase?

I know I don’t have a dog in this fight as of right now but since I am waiting for a class date I do have an invested interest in how things go on this TA. I personally think that if they took out all of the concession and only did the swap of PS for Pay rates it would be good. Pay rates increase protect you for low profit times. So as long as there is a raise after you take out PS it is a plus for the Pilots.

I would be a no vote purely because of the concession during a time when things are on a major upswing in pilots favor. We were supposed to have a lot more 200 at Endeavor but we can staff them. There are very few new pilots entering the airline world. Eventually the big 3 will have to do more of their flying to pick up the slack of their regional partners. This also makes me ask, “How did selling scope work out for the pilots at the majors?” From my understanding a lot of pilots said it would not affect them and wanted the pay raise to give it up. So for those saying sick time and taking trips away from the bid pack for OE will not affect them, I urge you to look at the last time pilots said that to get a pay raise.

I think that believing a turn back on this TA will result in removal of all concession is living in a fantasy world. There WILL be concessions going forward. Or there will not be a contract beyond C12. If anybody truly believes that we will get untouched PS, a pay raise and no concessions by voting no, they are not in this reality.

And welcome aboard by the way. All this angst aside, this is a great place to be.

Planetrain where did you find the wage pool? I've been trying to get the best bet. I used the CA 02-15 that showed 3.75M for last year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1922107)

Does anyone know pre 9/11 did all contracts have concessions? I am just wondering if we now suffer from Stockholm syndrome with regards that we figure we have to give something up in order to get anything. Has it always been you have to take concessions to get pay raise or is this what we just assume the new norm is?

Tom.....there has always give and take in our pwa.

There was no memrat at delta until the 90's. The mec and company went into a room and shook hands on the pwa.

Very cozy. After all memrat can get messy.....from the concerned parties view im sure.

The history of never rejecting a ts speaks to the mindset of cooperation and acceptance of this pilot group that the 'best' deal....for delta and the pilot group......had been struck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark350 (Post 1921969)

What would 1B look like as a straight pay raise? Rough mental math gives me $35/$22k) (ca/fo) over 3 yrs. Can't be right- our "historic contract" is our current contract adjusted for inflation!!

I'm willing to accept all their maths on this. All of the maths. All of them.

And take 1.0B and put it into pay rates alone with no other changes. At whatever percentage increase that winds up being. I would vote yes for that without even seeing the pay tables.

We'd avoid the concessions and get an extra Billion over 3 years, and the company would save 100 Million Dollars over the TA even including the concessions.

Win-Win.

#reasonable

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1922112)

Planetrain where did you find the wage pool? I've been trying to get the best bet. I used the CA 02-15 that showed 3.75M for last year.

$4.5B PTIX + $1.1 PS Cost + $231M Exec plan = $5.8 Adj PTIX for PS purposes: Contract Awareness Bulletin 15-02

$5.8 PTIX = $910M PS ($250M+$660M)
$910M 2014 PS/X=16.58 solve for X
x= $5.5B wage pool

BTW, all this is a wag. Wage pool could go down with less green slips, 757 pay traded for a321/B739, e190 rate, younger work force (less longevity pay), retired 747s, higher TLV, etc. That in turn raises PTIX. There's a lot of moving parts that go into PS % payout.

It's been concessionary since deregulation.

GF

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1922107)

You may be correct but these concessions and these pay rates are unacceptable. If we got a real 6% raise and a 6% conversion on profit sharing on 1/1/2016, then I think this would pass easily even with the concessions. I personally would still be a no because I think QOL gains need to be defended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planetrain (Post 1922164)

Looking for the Bulletin. In the meantime, if you reverse the calculation by taking $1.1B as 16.58% of payroll you get a PTIX number around $6.5B for a $1.1B payout. There is more to the PTIX add back, $4.5B GAAP + capex + onetime expenses etc.

What was the date on CA 15-02?

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 1922165)

It's been concessionary since deregulation.

GF

There's that.